MICHAEL:

Three years ago this month, Sussan Ley stood beside Peter Dutton as his deputy, the newly installed pair appearing confident of the contest ahead.

Audio excerpt – Peter Dutton:

“I'm really proud of the fact that Susan Ley, as my deputy, will not only be the deputy leader but the Shadow Minister for Industry, for Skills and Training, and Shadow Minister for Women.”

MICHAEL:

Ley backed Dutton enthusiastically.

Audio excerpt – Sussan Ley:

“Can I thank you Peter for your leadership to date, and say that you are absolutely the best person for this job.”

But now, it’s 2025, and she faces the public as the Coalition's new leader, after voters rejected the Dutton-Ley project and inflicted the party’s worst defeat on record.

The task ahead for Ley is three-fold: hold the Coalition together, reset the policy platform, and win back the city-women and younger voters who have abandoned them.

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MICHAEL:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Michael Williams, filling in for Daniel and Ruby. This is 7am.

Today, chief political correspondent for The Saturday Paper, Karen Barlow, on Sussan Ley’s uphill battle to rebuild the Coalition.

It’s Thursday, May 15.

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MICHAEL:

Karen, thanks for speaking with me. Now, Sussan Ley might arguably have the toughest job in politics. That's bringing the Liberal Party back to life after what can generously be called a rout. So what she said since she won the leadership about how she's going to approach that mammoth task.

KAREN:

Well, in short, Sussan Ley says she is up for the job. So big statement, big job, absolutely. With her stepping into it, there's a number of firsts. She's the first female opposition leader, first female leader of the Liberal Party, and first regional MP as leader since Malcolm Fraser.

Audio excerpt – Sussan Ley:

“It is an enormous privilege to have been elected the leader of the parliamentary Liberal Party. I am humbled. I am honoured. And I am up for the job.”

KAREN:

She says this thumping election loss to Labor was a significant defeat and it's not lost on anyone in the Liberal Party. She says that the Liberals respect the result, I guess they have to, and they're going to reflect with humility.

Audio excerpt – Sussan Ley:

“We have to have a Liberal Party that respects modern Australia, that reflects modern Australia and that represents modern Australia.”

KAREN:

Sussan Ley says it's time to listen, It's time to develop robust policy processes.

Audio excerpt – Sussan Ley:

“And we have to have a fresh approach. I want to harness the talents of every single person in our party room going forward.”

KAREN:

That reflects this criticism within the party that the leadership under Peter Dutton did not talk to the back bench, didn't really talk to anyone outside the leadership office. So that's something that they're going to go forward on. Sussan Ley also saying that there'll be no more Captain Picks, so that's also reflecting on this call for unity and to be collegiate. So it's time for a different approach, she says, and time to be more consultative.

MICHAEL:

Preaching the need to do things differently seems pretty wise at this point. She spoke quite a bit in the press conference about her upbringing and her career. So tell us a bit about that and about how that shaped how she's going to approach doing things differently.

KAREN:

Yeah, look, it was really interesting the way she presented herself. We immediately got a reintroduction to Sussan Ley, certainly for many actually it's an introduction. This is about not just her as a politician but her as a person. She told us the story about her as a migrant. Someone who came to Australia as a teenager.

Audio excerpt – Sussan Ley:

“I stepped out of the aeroplane at Brisbane Airport and I looked at this brilliant blue sky and I knew that I'd come to the best country on earth. And I knew that Australia was a place where I could dream my biggest dreams.”

KAREN:

She was actually born in Nigeria. Her dad was a British intelligence officer, and she also spent time in the United Arab Emirates. So she's done a lot. She became an aerial stock muster pilot. She still flies to this day. She flies all around her electorate, which is very large. Farrer is a very large regional electorate. She was also a Shearer's cook. Sometime in the 1980s, she had a brief punk rock phase, which is very interesting. Not many photos of that exist publicly, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere. She has master's degrees in taxation and accountancy. Before getting elected in 2001. And that's now a 24-year political career in federal parliament, the same as Peter Dutton. So she's had an interesting ascension into politics. She's had various roles in opposition and in government under various liberal leaders, notably Minister of Health, Minister of Aged Care, and Minister of the Environment, straight after that, she ascends to be Deputy Opposition Leader, and right here and now, as the new federal leader of the Liberal Party.

MICHAEL:

One of the things that I always remember about Sussan Ley, fairly or unfairly, is around the irregular spelling of her first name. And I was wondering if you could talk us through that, because that's something that has stuck in the mind.

KAREN:

Yeah, I think this aspect of Sussan Ley is getting a lot of attention at the moment. I think it's one of the big Google hits. Certainly there's a lot of memes going around at the moment. In short, Sussan with two S's came from a dabble in numerology. So Ley gave an interview in 2015 where she said that she was advised that if you add the numbers which match the letters in your name. It could lead to her having an incredibly exciting and interesting life and that nothing would ever be boring. So I guess we can reflect on the fact that she's now ascended to the leader of the Liberal Party. She definitely is not having a boring life, but this is something that conservative foes were putting around in this dirt sheet on Sussan Ley when she was vying for the job she now has and they were pointing to the S's mocking it and I guess it just points to the detractors that she still has within the party.

MICHAEL:

She was, of course, Peter Dutton's deputy, so some of it must stem from that. How different is she ideologically to Dutton, and what does she need to do now to distance herself from him?

KAREN:

I mean, immediately the first job after such a devastating loss is to unify, unify what's left of the Liberal Party and the Coalition, remembering that the federal Liberal leader is the leader of the Coalition and it's something that has to be united as a first responsibility and that will be a mammoth job. Ley is a moderate, unlike Peter Dutton, who is of the hard right, moderates are on the decline, they have been for a while. Especially after the 2022 teal wave, and the party room leans right. So there is strong internal and external urgings for the Liberal Party to lean further into the right and probably will shift more so after some Senate changes in June.

But the big job after ascending is to sort out the shadow cabinet, who's gonna be a front bench. So Ley's job is to listen and to stop and to pause and you know, really bring the party together as it faces this existential crisis.

MICHAEL:

After the break - is Sussan Ley breaking the glass ceiling, or being pushed off the glass cliff?

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MICHAEL:

Karen, the first question in Sussan Ley's presser as leader was about the nuclear policy. What sense do you have about whether the Liberal Party is willing to walk away from what Peter Dutton was so enthusiastically prosecuting?

KAREN:

Yeah, there's heavy interest in this and at this point we don't know.

Audio excerpt – Sussan Ley:

“Well, just here in this party room only a couple of hours ago, I committed to my colleagues that there would be no captain's calls from anywhere by me.”

KAREN:

The Nationals still appear keen and they didn't lose any seats in the 2025 election. Ley has not committed either way. She did say that energy policy is part of the review that will be done after the election loss.

Audio excerpt – Sussan Ley:

“There is going to be sound, sensible consultations. And I undertake 100 per cent to do that.”

KAREN:

She did say, however, that there is not going to be any climate wars going forward. The big task for the Labor Party at the moment in the field of climate is to present a 2035 net zero target. So we're waiting on that on the Labor side.

MICHAEL:

Karen, I'd love to touch on the gender question for a moment. You know, there is a real temptation to see Ley's appointment as the first woman to lead the Liberal Party as being an example of that phenomenon of the glass cliff, only when things are pretty dire does a woman finally get elevated to the top job. But as you've outlined, she's hugely experienced and appealing to women is a key priority to the Liberal party at this point in time. What do we know about how she might try to appeal to female voters?

KAREN:

Well, look, this will be a huge part of the review going forward. There were lots of messages in the 2022 election review done by front bencher Jane Hume and former director of the federal party Brian Loughnane. They had lots of ideas about getting back women and they were pretty much ignored. Ley was the shadow spokesperson for women. She is aware of the problems.

Audio excerpt – Sussan Ley:

“And I said in my statement for candidacy for this position that we did let women down. There is no doubt about that and it is true that the numbers of women who are supporting us is declining and I want to rule a line under that I don't want to see that decline for one more day.”

KAREN:

This new agenda to bring back women inside and outside the party is something that she says that she will personally drive. There is inside the party strong support from the women that are left inside the party for Sussan Ley. I understand a lot of them voted for her in the leadership ballot. And you know, when we talk about this being an existential crisis for the Liberal Party, this issue of women will be absolutely front and centre.

MICHAEL:

In many ways, Sussan Ley will be an interesting opponent for Anthony Albanese. He's been used to sparring at times in fairly aggressive terms with Peter Dutton. So how would you describe her parliamentary approach? What kind of performer is she in the room?

KAREN:

It's going to be really interesting seeing Ley in parliament and whether she's going to change. Ley, so far as we've seen her in parliament, is not afraid to get in there for a scrap. She does things to unsettle people in parliament. Particularly Tanya Plibersek.

Audio excerpt – Sussan Ley:

“A point of order on relevance, Mr Speaker, and I respectfully submit that the minister was going nowhere near the question, which was quite straightforward and quite simple: does she still support the introduction of a federal EPA.”

KAREN:

They've been sparring all over the past term.

Audio excerpt – Tanya Plibersek:

“There's a difference between 'strong' and 'aggro'. The aggro is constantly on display.”

KAREN:

I would say that there will be some sort of change and we have to see who she assembles on her front bench and how she operates with them.

She's already indicated that Angus Taylor will have an integral role, and Jacinta Nampijinpa Price really did want to get the deputy position so much so she had to move from the National Party room to the Liberal Party room and upset people on both sides to do so. Then there's a question of Ted O'Brien as deputy leader, he has a choice of whatever role he would like to do. He is the chief promoter, or has been the chief promoter, of the nuclear energy policy, which has proved so unpalatable with the electorate.

The other thing I would say is it will be interesting to see how Albanese changes because I think he's found it difficult to attack women in parliament and whenever he has done so, even if it's reasonably mild, he has come under sustained attack from the opposition for doing so. It will be a sight to see, but we've got a few weeks to see them all assemble again.

MICHAEL:

Karen, what's your sense? Obviously, day one, Sussan Ley couldn't be more determined, more eye on the task, knows what’s to be done. But the litany of jobs ahead of her that you've just described seems pretty daunting. Party cohesion, bringing women back, the policy stuff thinking about uniting the centre and the right of the party, all of these things. Not to mention getting to a position where they might be able to pick up another 34 seats before the next election. Do you see Sussan Ley going the distance and do you think that she might be able to get them within cooee of government again after a term?

KAREN:

Well, she says that she is not being presented just as the female leader to be set up to fail or set up to clean up the men's mess. But the party is certainly united by being winded by this loss. Certainly they see this as a wake-up call. They just have to do something differently because they've had these warnings at least since 2016 and look at them now. But I see very marked division about the direction of the party, about what it needs to do. And I certainly see naked ambition from survivors of the party. So, you know, never discount a political party’s ability to find more enemies within it than without.

MICHAEL:

Karen, thanks so much for your time.

KAREN:

Thank you.

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MICHAEL:

Also in the news today…

Annual wage growth has hit 3.4 per cent over the past year – the first time wage growth has ticked up since the June quarter of 2024.

The data from the ABS shows wage growth is outpacing inflation, with consumer prices rising just 2.4% over the same period, meaning the gap between Australians’ living costs and pay packets is gradually narrowing.

And

A Queensland man is feared to have been killed while fighting in Ukraine.

Sources in Ukraine have told Australian media that Caleb List, who joined the Ukrainian Foreign Legion in 2022, is currently missing and is believed to have died in heavy fighting last month.

The Department of Foreign Affairs says it’s providing consular advice to the families of those missing in Ukraine, and is urging Australians not to travel to the region.

I’m Michael Williams. 7am will be back tomorrow, and Daniel James will be back in the chair. Thanks for listening.

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