RUBY:

Hey, Ruby here.

Before we get into today’s episode, I wanted to let you know we’ll be holding our first ever 7am live event on July 31. It’s part of the inaugural Melbourne Podcast Festival, which we’re really excited to be a part of.

At the event, I’ll be speaking to our producers, who help make the show, and journalists from The Saturday Paper about how we go about creating the show each day and what it’s like working in daily news in Australia. Plus you’ll get the chance to ask us all of your burning questions about the show.

You can find out more and book tickets at melbournepodcastfestival.com. See you there!

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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.
As the country grapples with growing outbreaks of Covid-19, new data shows that less than 8 percent of Australians are fully vaccinated against the virus.

This week, the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, announced that the AstraZeneca vaccine, which was previously only available for people over 60, could now be accessed by anyone, regardless of their age. The announcement caught everyone - including doctors and state governments - by surprise. It’s also led to significant pushback, particularly from the Queensland government, who are still advising younger Australians to avoid AstraZeneca.

Today, contributing editor to The Monthly, Rachel Withers, on what's behind the government decision-making on vaccine eligibility.

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RUBY:

Rachel, the Prime Minister announced a whole raft of changes to Australia’s pandemic-related policies this week and one of those was the announcement that the AstraZeneca vaccine can now be administered to people who are aged under 40 years. Previously, that wasn’t the case and that was because of this health advice advising younger Australians against receiving the vaccine because of that small risk of blood clots. So what happened?

RACHEL:

So after National Cabinet, Scott Morrison came out and gave a press conference making a couple of different announcements about the vaccine rollout.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“Thank you very much. I'm joined by Professor Paul Kelly and Lieutenant General Fruen from Operation Covid Shield. They’ll be available to take questions…”

RACHEL:

Among other things, he said that people under 40 could now come forward and get AstraZeneca from their GP - after talking to their GP about the risks - with GPs to have additional indemnity for providing AstraZeneca.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“Now, the ATAGI advice talks about a preference for AstraZeneca to be available and made available to those as preferred for those over 60. But the advice does not preclude persons under 60 from getting the AstraZeneca vaccine. And so if you wish to...”

RACHEL:

But the next morning, when people started trying to book in for their AstraZeneca appointments, things got really confusing.

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Reporter:

“The announcement after last night's emergency national cabinet, a surprise to the states…”

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Speaker:

“Opening the eligibility to people under 40 for AstraZeneca was not a decision of national cabinet…”

RACHEL:

It became pretty apparent that this announcement was news to basically everyone except Scott Morrison. It was news to GPS who were taken by surprise, who were pretty reluctant to start booking in young people to give them AstraZeneca until they got some official guidance. It was news to the states, a couple of whom came out and said that this hadn't been discussed at National Cabinet.

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Speaker:

“So that is very clear that national cabinet do not make that decision…”

RACHEL:

The press conference was the first they'd heard of it. The AMA said the same thing that, you know, they'd been told about the indemnity changes, but not the changes in ages that could come forward and get the vaccine.

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Speaker:

“Look, there's a lot of confusion out there and unfortunately the Prime Minister has thrown a little bit of a hand grenade into our vaccine program and I think that today shows why we need to keep the politicians out of health discussions and leave them between patients and their doctors.”

RACHEL:

And amidst all of this chaos, I started to wonder if maybe this particular part of the announcement had not actually been an intentional change by Scott Morrison. He was clearly quite exhausted in this press conference. He was tired and cranky and defensive and, you know, sort of trying to shut down questions. And his communication isn't the clearest at the best of times, so it seems genuinely possible that we've seen a major change to the vaccine rollout this week based on something he accidentally said.

RUBY:

OK, can you tell me a bit more about that, that idea that maybe Scott Morrison misspoke at the press conference? Is there anything else that made you think that this might be the case?

RACHEL:

Yeah, well, when I went back and looked at the transcript of the press conference. I noticed that the change to allow for under 40s to come forward wasn't actually part of his announcements up front and it wasn't mentioned in the press release that came out after National Cabinet. This particular piece of news about the 40s being allowed to come forward actually came about in an answer to a question from a journalist seeking to clarify what the indemnity changes - which had been announced - meant for people who were under 40.

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Journalist:

“Prime Minister, just with the changes to the indemnity for AstraZeneca. Does that mean that people under 40 will be able to talk to their GP and get the jab immediately? And if not…”

RACHEL:

And it seemed like a really strange way to make such a major change to the phased nature of the roll out, sort of back-announcing it.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“If they wish to go and speak to their, their doctor, and have access to the AstraZeneca vaccine, they can do so. So the answer is yes, they can go and do that.”

RACHEL:

And so the media obviously started reporting it as a huge deal. And it was all based off these these short answers that slipped out of Morrison's mouth in answer to a question. But if the announcement was made in error, the federal government has decided to run with it rather than acknowledge that the prime minister got it wrong.

RUBY:

So this is definitely the federal government's advice now. They've gone from recommending that the AstraZeneca vaccine should only be available for those over 60 to now saying that anyone of any age can go and get it.

RACHEL:

Yep, they've continued to say that in the days since, while also emphasising that the medical advice hasn't changed. So the very next morning on ABC News Breakfast, we saw the Commonwealth Chief Medical Officer, Paul Kelly, back the Prime Minister's call. Whether it was an accident or not.

Archival Tape -- Paul Kelly:

“The change really last night was the decreasing of the age down below 40, that that was really the only change that was announced last night. AstraZeneca has always been available from anyone.”

RACHEL:

And then that afternoon, Health Minister Greg Hunt, who has kind of been out there speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister, who we haven't heard from since, said that they had always been capacity for people to get vaccines not recommended for them under the advice, but confirmed that access was what had been changed here to include under 40s. And when he was asked why the government's advice had changed just two weeks after he came out and announced that the health body ATAGI had raised the recommended age bracket, he said...

Archival Tape -- Greg Hunt:

“Now look, with great respect, the medical advice remains clear and unchanged and that is that AstraZeneca is preferred for over 60s and Pfizer is preferred for the under 60s…”

RACHEL:

...and that this was simply a recognition that access for those who wish to make an informed consent decision can be broadened.

RUBY:

Right. So the health advice itself hasn't changed. Just the access: under 40s can now access the AstraZeneca vaccine if they want to. And we don't really know why that change has happened or even if it was a deliberate decision on the part of the government.

RACHEL:

Yeah, no, it's not clear at all. But if it wasn't intentional, if it was just something that Scott Morrison sort of said in answer to a question. Then the federal government is running with a Prime Ministerial slip up, changing its policy on the fly to cover for the fact that Morrison just didn't realise what he was saying yes to here. And either way, it's led to a massive showdown with the states who have rebelled against the advice, with some outright saying that they don't want people in their state under 40 getting AstraZeneca.

RUBY:

We’ll be back after this.

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RUBY:

Rachel, we've been talking about the announcement that we heard from the federal government that people under 40 can go and get the AstraZeneca vaccination, but there does seem to be conflict around all of that now. So tell me about what the states are saying.

RACHEL:

Premiers all distanced themselves from Scott Morrison's captain's call, each confirming that the decision hadn't come out of National Cabinet and saying that Pfizer was still the preferred vaccine for under 60s as per the medical advice, which has not changed. And they all ruled out administering AstraZeneca to under 60s through their state-run clinics. But the premier's positions on whether young people should have the AstraZeneca vaccine, if they really wanted it, varied, we saw Western Australia Premier, Mark McGowan, saying it shouldn't happen as per the health advice.

Archival Tape -- Mark McGowan:

“Well, it's an individual choice. That's what the prime minister has said. But our health advice is: they shouldn't do it.”

RACHEL:

Victorian Health Minister, Martin Foley, recommended under 60s who wanted it go and see their GP and have a discussion.

Archival Tape -- Martin Foley:

“Opening the eligibility to people under 40 for AstraZeneca was not a decision of National Cabinet…”

RACHEL:

New South Wales Premier, Gladys Berejiklian, avoided answering the question directly and said, you know, it's not important what my opinion on what the age is, is. What's important is that people follow the health advice.

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“Look, can I just make the point that the New South Wales government always follows the health advice and the health advice from…”

RACHEL:

And, of course, that advice that they were continuously referring to was that Pfizer is still the recommended vaccine for people under 60. And the real outlier here was Queensland, which went the furthest in its criticism of the call.

Archival Tape -- Annastacia Palaszczuk:

“There has been no national cabinet decision that AstraZeneca being given to under 40s…”

RACHEL:

...and making clear that they didn't want young people getting AstraZeneca under any circumstances.

RUBY:

So tell me a bit more about what exactly the Queensland government said, what their advice was, and also the reasoning behind that.

RACHEL:

So we saw Deputy Premier, Steven Miles, accusing the prime minister of putting young people at risk. And then Queensland's Chief Health Officer, Jeannette Young, said she didn't want under 40s getting AstraZeneca and pointed to the deaths happening in the UK, which is very, very few. But she pointed out that 49 people had died in the UK because of this vaccine.

Archival Tape -- Jeannette Young:

“It is rare, but they’re at increased risk of getting that rare clotting syndrome. We’ve seen up to 49 deaths in the UK from that syndrome…”

RACHEL:

and it was really over the top.

Archival Tape -- Jeannette Young:

“I don’t want an 18 year-old in Queensland dying from a clotting illness who, if they got Covid, probably wouldn't die.”

RACHEL:

It was this reckless, alarmist, fear-mongering display that honestly might have done more to undermine vaccine confidence than anything the federal government has done with its bumbling comments.

Archival Tape -- Jeannette Young:

“We've had very few deaths due to Covid-19 in Australia, in people under the age of 50. And wouldn't it be terrible that our first 18 year-old in Queensland who dies related to this pandemic died because of the vaccine.”

RACHEL:

And there's been a lot of backlash to the comments from experts who were worried about vaccine hesitancy amid concerns this could put off even those over 60 who are still meant to get AstraZeneca and who we really need to go and get vaccinated with AstraZeneca.

RUBY:

And Rachel that really does bring us to the crux of all of this, because there have been so many different messages on the vaccine rollout and the advice has changed more than once about who should get which vaccine and when. So, how damaging is all of this likely to be in terms of people having a clear understanding of the rollout and when and how they should get vaccinated?

RACHEL:

Yeah, I think it's going to be quite damaging. We've already seen the advice surrounding AstraZeneca change twice just in the past couple of months. And then suddenly we've now got this extra recommendation or whatever it is from the Prime Minister. And it's left people under 40, especially, in a really confusing situation. This is the first time people under 40 have broadly had access to a vaccine. It's not the one recommended for them, as they keep being told, but the one that is recommended for them isn't available. And it's not clear how long they'll have to wait if they want to wait for Pfizer, which they're being told by some people they should wait for. So, you know, it's really confusing young people. A lot of them are eager to go and get it. They've been waiting for something like this. But, yeah, they're just getting these mixed messages from the Prime Minister and the states and especially from Queensland with this over the top warning about the risks, which are small and young people do understand what they are. But, yeah, they're being scared off going and getting something that the Prime Minister basically told them on Monday night they could go and get now. And so, yeah, it's created this massive, massive mess. And ultimately, you know, if Morrison did make a mistake in his announcement on Monday that comes down to him, he could have quickly cleared it up if it was a mistake. But he didn't. And the thing is, I don't actually think it's a terrible call opening vaccines up to the 40s and getting all vaccines in arms. A lot of my friends are eager to go and take up the opportunity and take that tiny, calculated risk to get us out of this, especially if older people are not taking up AstraZeneca. But it's just wild to think that we might have made a major, major change to our vaccine policy based on something Morrison accidentally said.

RUBY:

Rachel, thank you so much for your time.

RACHEL:

Thanks, Ruby.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today...

The NSW government has announced the creation of three new mass vaccination centres, in Sydney and in Wollongong.

It comes as the state reported 24 new cases of COVID-19 on Thursday. Only about half of those were in isolation for their entire infectious period. Meanwhile, Queensland recorded two new cases of community transmission. The state government is due to make an announcement on whether or not the current three day lockdown will be extended later today.

7am is a daily show from The Monthly and The Saturday Paper. It’s produced by Elle Marsh, Michelle Macklem, and Cinnamon Nippard.

Our senior producer is Ruby Schwartz and our technical producer is Atticus Bastow.

Brian Campeau mixes the show. Our editor is Osman Faruqi. Erik Jensen is our editor-in-chief.

Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio.

I’m Ruby Jones, see ya next week.

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