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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.

Barnaby Joyce has been rolled as leader of the National Party and replaced by David Littleproud.

Joyce says he’s not sad about it, but unlike Scott Morrison he did try to hang on to his party’s leadership after the election.

So what state has Joyce left the Nationals in? Will his successor be any different? And is there a chance that Joyce could make yet another political comeback?

Today, contributing editor to The Monthly, Rachel Withers on Barnaby Joyce’s fate… and the future of the Nationals.

It’s Thursday June 2.

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RUBY:

Rachel, the coalition as a whole did pretty badly at the election, but most of that seems to have been felt by one part of that coalition, by the Liberals. But what about the other party in that partnership - what about the Nationals?

RACHEL:

Yeah, well, as we heard repeatedly from former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce over the past week, the Nationals didn't actually lose any seats in this election and therefore can't be blamed for what happened to the Coalition.

This of course ignores the fact that the Coalition not being able to form government is a problem for the Nationals.

And there's no doubt that their positions, particularly on climate change, played a role in the overall Coalition's downfall.

And now that's led to Barnaby Joyce his downfall again.

RUBY:

Okay, so let's talk about Barnaby Joyce. He is obviously one of the more well-known government MPs, but that hasn't always been for the right reasons.

RACHEL:

No. So Joyce became the Deputy Prime Minister under Malcolm Turnbull and he resigned in 2018 after the Daily Telegraph broke the news that he was expecting a baby with Vikki Campion, who was one of his former staffers. And Turnbull was very scathing of that.

Archival Tape -- Malcolm Turnbull:

“Most of our attention has been focused on Baranby Joyce.”

RACHEL:

He introduced the bonk ban

Archival Tape -- Malcolm Turnbull:

“Ministers regardles of whether they are married or single must not engage in sexual relations with their staff.”

RACHEL:

Around the same time, there was also a sexual harassment allegation against Joyce,

Archival Tape -- News:

“Yeah he has fiercely denied it Jodie saying these allegations are defamatory and date back to eighteen months ago.”

RACHEL:

And it was after this allegation was made that he actually stood down.

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“And as you all understand if it's going to be before the courts, it's going to be before the courts. But what I will say is that on Monday morning at the party room I will step down as leader of the National party and deputy prime minister.”

RACHEL:

And then he spent some time on the backbench where he was very vocal in his views.

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“Look, I just don't want the government in my life. I'm sick of the government in my life.”

RACHEL:

But then three years after his big scandal and after those three years on the backbench, Joyce challenged the new Nationals leader Michael McCormack, in a leadership spill which he won and he became Deputy Prime Minister again under Scott Morrison.

RUBY:

Ok And so once Barnaby Joyce returned to the deputy position. How would you characterise his time in Parliament and his relationship with with the Prime Minister, with Scott Morrison?

RACHEL:

Well, I wouldn't have said they were each other's greatest fans going into it.

Barnaby Joyce actually said as much in an infamously leaked text message sent not long before he returned to the leadership in which he called Morrison a hypocrite and a liar and said they didn't get along.

Archival Tape -- News:

“The Australian quotes Mr. Joyce saying he and Mr. Morrison don't get along. I've never trusted him and I dislike how he earnestly rearranges the truth to a lie.”

RACHEL:

But they managed to negotiate a position on net zero.

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“And anything in life, if someone believes they're being forced into a corner, you know what they're going to do? They're gonna say no.”

RACHEL:

Although that might have had more to do with Morrison throwing $30 million in funding commitments at the Nationals just to get just to get it over the line.

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“First and foremost, we were our own party. You know, we're not we choose to go into a coalition, but we're not chained to a coalition. We do the right thing for regional people in the coalition.”

RACHEL:

And it was quite a hostage like situation when we needed to go to Glasgow in the Nationals were just screwing him for all they could. As Barnaby Joyce has said in the last few days. But then when those text messages, the liar and hypocrite text messages leaked, Joyce apologised.

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“I should never have written the text that I did. I certainly never expected the text to be forwarded on.”

RACHEL:

And the Prime Minister accepted the apology.

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“When it came to light a couple of days ago. I rang the Prime Minister immediately. I apologised, he accepted my apology, I offered my resignation and he did not accept my resignation.”

RACHEL:

But then they weren't seen together much on the campaign trail after that, probably because Joyce was seen as so toxic to the Liberals. Morrison obviously had his own toxicity problems and both of them contributed to the Coalition's loss. And so Morrison stood down after losing as a losing prime minister. Usually does, but Joyce didn't. And then we saw on Monday two of his fellow Nationals challenge him for the leadership.

RUBY:

Okay. And so what happened then? Tell me about who challenged Joyce?

RACHEL:

So we saw two challenges David Littleproud, who was Barnaby Joyce's deputy, and Darren Chester, who was very, very outspoken in criticising Barnaby Joyce and his leadership. And so Littleproud, as expected, did win the spill. He was sort of the most popular figure in the party, a sort of closer to where everyone else was sitting. And then we saw Perrin Davy, first term senator, become the new deputy under David Littleproud.

RUBY:

Okay, so David Littleproud is now the leader of the Nationals. Barnaby lost that challenge. So what do we know about how Barnaby Joyce took that?

RACHEL:

Very well. So. First we heard of how Barnaby Joyce had taken his loss was not long after the meeting he put out a statement that started off very strangely. Very much sounded like Barnaby Joyce having a dig at his enemies with the lines.

I suppose you think I am sad? Not really.

And ever since, he's really tried to downplay the idea that this has disappointed him in any way. He's told Sky News that it's not that bad.

Archival Tape -- Sky News:

“Well, you say you're not sad about it. I imagine you don't all that thrilled.”

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“Oh, look, actually, it's not that bad. I mean, I've.”

RACHEL:

And he was always going to hand over the leadership at some point after the election.

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“I was always going to transition, in any case, out of the leadership. So I'm not crying into my beer.”

Archival Tape -- News:

“What do you mean?”

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“That's awesome.”

Archival Tape -- News:

“Where were you going to transition.”

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“Yeah, this term.”

RACHEL:

But it is a slightly ridiculous claim to be making after he did try to hold on, he did run for the leadership and now he's saying that he didn't really want it anyway.

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“I said that he.”

Archival Tape -- News:

“Meant that he'd made that personal decision. When did you said to party room? Sorry.”

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“I said, actually, when I took over the leadership and I've said it numerous times, I was always going to transition out.”

Archival Tape -- News:

“Why was that?”

Archival Tape -- Barnaby Joyce:

“Because I just think that's good for the leadership of the party to renew.”

RUBY:

We'll be back in a moment.

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RUBY:

Rachel. In the wake of the Coalition's election loss, Barnaby Joyce is out as Nationals leader and David Littleproud is now leading the party. So can you tell me a bit more about him? Who is David Littleproud?

RACHEL:

Well, until recently he was the deputy leader of the Nationals Party. He is an MP from Queensland. He's the federal member for Maranoa, which is actually the largest electorate in Queensland and there's some pretty big ones in Queensland. And it was also the safest state in the country. So Littleproud is sitting in a very big, very safe seat.

Archival Tape -- David Littleproud:

“Welcome to walk into Maranoa.”

Archival Tape -- SBS:

“So it's great to meet you and it's great to be here. I'm very little makes up 45% of Queensland. That is a huge chunk of Australia. Give us a snapshot of your electorate.”

Archival Tape -- David Littleproud:

“And our main industries, agriculture. It's the common thread that links every community right across mine all together. But we've also had the advent of gas, coal.”

RACHEL:

And he was one of just four MPs to vote against marriage equality.

Archival Tape -- SBS:

“Are you opposed to same sex marriage.”

Archival Tape -- David Littleproud:

“As it stands? Yes, at the moment I am.”

Archival Tape -- SBS:

“What is it that you feel that your electorate and perhaps you are so afraid of?”

RACHEL:

And this was, as he said, because he had pledged to vote in accordance with his electorate's verdict, and Maranoa actually registered a no in the plebiscite. He went right up to the leaders seat, in fact in the chamber during the vote, really making his dissent known on marriage equality. And he's also caused a little bit of controversy in the past for questioning whether climate change is manmade.

Archival Tape -- Q&A:

“So, David, the fundamental question is whether manmade climate change is causing droughts like the one we're seeing now. That's what Meg is suggesting.”

Archival Tape -- David Littleproud:

“Well, look, that's a big call. I look, the reality is the reality is I don't really give a rat's whether it's manmade or not. If we want to go to.”

RACHEL:

And this was when he was the Minister for Drought and Natural Disasters during the Black Summer bushfires.

Archival Tape -- Speers:

“He's the Minister for Water for Drought Relief, for Natural Disaster and Emergency Management as well. Thank you very much for joining me. So climate is changing and that's certainly true. The question is, is this man made climate change?”

Archival Tape -- David Littleproud:

“I've got no idea. But does it? Does it really matter?”

Archival Tape -- Speers:

“Answer You have no idea.”

Archival Tape -- David Littleproud:

“I'm not a scientist. I haven't made an opinion one way or another, but I don't think it really matters. I think I just.”

Archival Tape -- Speers:

“Want to be clear on this. You're not sure whether man made climate change is real.”

Archival Tape -- David Littleproud:

“No, I'm not. I'm going to.”

RACHEL:

So he became the deputy leader of the Nationals in February 2020 and as he told reporters this week, it was actually his dream to be the leader of the party ever since he joined.

Littleproud I joined the National Party as a six year old boy hanging out for my father, the Chinchilla courthouse, as he tried to become the member.

RACHEL:

He sort of indicated that the sensible centre was where he wanted to take the party.

Littleproud And this is not about the National Party lurching left or lurching right. It's using common sense and being in a sensible centre. That's where you win elections, not chasing extremities.

RACHEL:

And despite his previous comments about climate change, he was one of the people in the party in favour of embracing net zero. But he did refuse to back the idea of legislating the target. And yeah, he's he certainly no Barnaby Joyce and he may not be a full moderate, but he certainly is a big change in tone from Barnaby Joyce.

RUBY:

Okay. And so what do we know about how the the Coalition relationship is likely to play out now? Because obviously there's also a new Liberal leader, Peter Dutton. How are they likely to work together? And is this relationship going to be significantly different from from the Scott Morrison Barnaby Joyce Coalition relationship?

RACHEL:

Well, Dutton and Littleproud are due to meet soon. We don't really know much about their working relationship. They are both from Queensland. They're both members of the LNP, the Liberal National Party. And they're on the same page, it seems about supporting net zero, but not supporting Labour's new targets. And they're yeah, they'll be, they'll be meeting to work out a new coalition agreement, which they do every time. And Littleproud is pushing for an equitable, fair and sensible deal to benefit regional Australians.

It's not clear how the fact that the Nationals now have a greater amount of influence in the Coalition is going to play out here. Barnaby Joyce had been quite vocal about getting more for the Nats out of the fact that they now had a greater percentage of the seats. But yeah, we'll see how Littleproud is willing to work with Dutton and we also don't know what Dutton is going to be doing, but whether he's more willing to defer to what the Liberals need at this stage.

RUBY:

And what about Barnaby Joyce's next move, Rachel? Do you think that this is really the end for him because he's obviously been out in the political wilderness before but managed to come back. What's your sense of what might be next?

RACHEL:

Yeah, I'm not sure. I think as you mentioned, he's been in the wilderness before. It seemed like an insurmountable task for him to come back from those scandals that saw him lose the deputy prime ministership. But he has done it before.
He's just like this Terminator who keeps coming back.

I think he's certainly going to hang around and be even more outspoken. In the meantime, now that he's not constrained by being in Cabinet, we also don't know what the margin of Monday's vote was. We don't know how close it was. Barnaby Joyce probably knows how close it was and that would probably play a role in whether he is hanging around and biding his time for another another go.

But if the National Party really has learnt the lessons from this election that they needed to learn then the Nationals will have to keep Barnaby Joyce out if they ever want to get back into gosrrvernment.

RUBY:

Rachel, thank you so much for your time.

RACHEL:

Thanks Ruby.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today,

Home prices across Australia have fallen for the first time in at least 20 months.

According to two house price indices, prices have dropped 0.1 percent nationally in a month.

**

And the US government has announced it will send Ukraine advanced long range rocket systems as part of a $700 million dollar military aid package.

US President Joe Biden said the weapons will enable Ukraine to “fight on the battlefield and be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table.”

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am, see you tomorrow.