[Theme Music Starts]

RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am, and I’m here with my new co-host Daniel James. Hi Daniel.

DANIEL:

Hello Ruby, good to be here.

RUBY:

Daniel, 7am listeners will know you from when you’ve been a guest on the show and also from your excellent coverage of The Voice but, from today, they will be hearing you as the host of 7am twice a week.

DANIEL:

Yep, that’s the plan. I’m looking forward to gaining a deeper understanding of some of the issues that affect our listeners during this very tumultuous period of our history.

RUBY:

Well it's an exciting time to have you on the show and I’m looking forward to your first episode. Can you tell me about it?

DANIEL:

We’re looking at the climate crisis through the prism of whistleblowing. There’s a lot of talk on what is being done, both by big business and governments around the country, to address the climate crisis, but whistleblowers actually play an integral role in exposing wrongdoing by big companies and, in some instances, governments. So we’ll be taking a closer look at that and realise that whistleblowers are actually an integral part of our democracy and there’s been a chilling effect on them recently through a bunch of legislation, but also a number of whistleblowers going to prison. So, we’ll look at how one can become a whistleblower and the impact whistleblowers have on some of our most important issues.

RUBY:

It’s a dangerous, but important, job and we appreciate people doing it. It sounds like a great episode.

DANIEL:

Thanks Ruby.

RUBY:

It’s Thursday, July 18.

[Theme Music Ends]

[Advertisement]

DANIEL:

Regina Featherstone is a senior lawyer at the Human Rights Law Center’s Whistleblower Project.

REGINA:

We started looking back at Australia's history of climate and environmental whistleblowers because, while this is maybe a new name, we know that Australia has a really, really, deep and connected history of speaking up for our environment.

DANIEL:

Regina has helped write a guide for how to legally and safely blow the whistle on climate crimes. Big businesses covering up malpractice, greenwashing, biodiversity hazards and more. And in doing that, she’s also looked at examples through history where whistleblowing has led to real change.

Audio Excerpt - News Reporter:

“In the South Australian desert, this modern village is the nerve centre of the new Atomic Proving Grounds at Maralinga. Here, scientists, technicians and servicemen prepared for a new series of nuclear weapon tests.”

REGINA:

Between 1956 and 1963, the British government used Maralinga in South Australia on Anangu country on the edge of the Nullarbor Plain to test seven atomic explosions and engage with hundreds of other nuclear trials.

Audio Excerpt - News Reporter:

“3…2…1…0.”

DANIEL:

The atomic testing carried out in Australia, on behalf of the British Government, is a shameful and often forgotten part of Australia’s history. At the time of the testing, the indigenous communities surrounding the sites weren’t warned of the impacts on nuclear fallout known as “puyu” or “black mist”. Many communities close to the test sites were forced off their land and the amount of plutonium found at the site was far greater than expected.

REGINA:

While they said that they cleaned it up, we know that the Hawke government had a Royal Commission into the ongoing debris that was left there. What came of that was the solution to do a really thorough clean up and Alan Parkinson was tasked with leading that.

Audio Excerpt - Alan Parkinson:

“The partial cleanup of the Maralinga atomic bomb test site in South Australia was in two parts. The first part was to remove soil contaminated with plutonium and bury that soil in a very large trench.”

REGINA:

But what happened was we know that they cut corners. There were budget cuts that, by the time the Howard government came in, that this private company was willing to use shallow trenches to put plutonium and uranium waste, which we know would have caused ongoing effects to the wildlife, to the Anangu people and to the broader community.

Audio Excerpt - Alan Parkinson:

“The oft repeated suggestion by the project manager was that we should simply bury the hundreds of tonnes of debris contaminated with plutonium, claiming it would be cheaper.”

REGINA:

He was able to speak up and tell Australians that what the government was doing wasn't true. They were saying it was world's best practice and we know that it wasn't. There were very detailed listings of, and requirements, that came from the Royal Commission and they weren't being followed. Parkinson's actions show that we know the government is prepared to lie and contract out of responsibility for toxic nuclear waste. I mean, that's about as serious as it can get.

And it's really important that those sorts of pieces of wrongdoing come to light, that we know how our governments will treat communities, their health, their ongoing connection to land, if they're going to lie about nuclear waste. And so, when we started looking into some of the whistleblowers who have really championed this work, we couldn't really go past Alan Parkinson, the nuclear engineer.

DANIEL:

And you've obviously chosen to look deeply at climate environmental whistleblowers. Why now? Are we seeing more of this type of whistleblowing emerge?

REGINA:

I think that we're in a really, really key moment. It's crunch time. We've just had the first year above 1.5 degrees across the globe, which we know is that crucial line in the sand that we have to mitigate the effects of global warming. And so, it's a really, really important time because the government is continuing to push 160 new coal and gas developments by 2030. They've promised a $1.5 billion subsidy to the petrochemical hub, if it goes ahead, Middle Arm in the Northern Territory. And so we need individuals to speak up about what is actually happening inside companies, inside the government, as it relates to climate and environment risk.

DANIEL:

So are there other recent examples of people blowing the whistle when it comes to environmental destruction?

REGINA:

We've had a lot of people coming forward in the last year such that, you know, we're extremely busy. There's a lot of wrongdoing that needs to be disclosed. We've been able to help people give evidence at Senate inquiries in relation to greenwashing. We've been able to assist individuals to come forward with the truth about biodiversity hazards, experts in their field. We've had people come forward with disclosures of wrongdoing in the fossil fuel industry.

Audio Excerpt - Senate Committee Chair:

“Senator Pocock.”

Audio Excerpt - David Pocock:

“Thank you. I’ve got a few photos and a brief statement I’d like to table for the committee and then just ask a few questions if that’s alright.”

REGINA:

Last year, there was the Santos whistleblower, who tabled documents in Parliament with Senator David Pocock, showing that Santos lied about the impacts of an oil spill which killed dolphins and sea snakes off the coast of Western Australia, near Varanus Island.

Audio Excerpt - David Pocock:

“I might just read a few things while you have a look through the document. The tragedy of dolphin carcases amid a kilometre wide oil slick should be the story, but it's not. The story is Santos's subsequent cover up and total disregard for the values they say they hold dear. Values such as accountability and integrity.”

REGINA:

Santos issued a public statement that no harm had come from that spill.

Audio Excerpt - David Pocock:

“Despite tens of thousands of litres of oil in the ocean, Santos had not mobilised environmental assessors to the island until a week after the incident. They could not have known the real scale of impact. It was never checked.”

REGINA:

This whistleblower couldn't sit by and allow Santos' lies to enter out into the public. He gave these documents to Senator David Pocock and essentially, what happened from that, was global media coverage. Santos commissioned an independent investigation into the spill. Their executive bonuses linked to environmental KPIs were suspended by the Santos board and, ultimately, their bonuses were docked. So that was in their latest company report and that just goes to show that every day there might be a worker who sees something that's wrong, just an everyday person who is able to call out the lies, trigger accountability and effect change. If they're able to do that with one of the biggest fossil fuel companies in Australia, I think that that's hugely important because they can show that these companies aren't above the law and that their actions do have consequences.

DANIEL:

But when the consequences are often more severe for the whistleblower, how can you do it without repercussions? That’s after the break.

[Advertisement]

DANIEL:

Regina, we’ve all heard chilling stories of whistleblowers going to jail for exposing wrongdoing, sometimes getting harsher penalties than the people or organisations actually doing the wrong thing. So, just how difficult is it to be a whistleblower in this country at the moment?

REGINA:

I think whistleblowers are facing a huge challenge. The fear of blowing the whistle is really real. The chilling effect that recent prosecutions have had can't be understated.

Audio Excerpt - ABC reporter:

“Former military lawyer David McBride has been sentenced to five years and 8 months jail in the ACT supreme court for sharing classified military documents with journalists.”

REGINA:

You know, the recent prosecutions, the imprisonment of David McBride, the upcoming trial for Richard Boyle, the ATO whistleblower.

Audio Excerpt - ABC reporter:

“Boyle tried to help a number of small business owners he believed were being treated unfairly, eventually taking his concerns to the media. He now faces the likelihood of a criminal trial and potentially a long jail sentence, one of several high profile prosecutions which highlight the lack of protections for whistleblowers.”

REGINA:

I guess that's why we were set up at The Whistleblower Project. We are Australia's first dedicated legal service, hoping to fill that gap, helping to add that support to whistle blowers. We're experts in what we do. We know the law. We know how to assist clients to make safe, protected disclosures and so that they can continue on with their lives by making a disclosure. Having different accountability mechanisms, like regulators to review that, or courts, or whatever it might be, having those enforcement mechanisms deal with the wrongdoing and then that person's life isn't ultimately suffering detriment from it. But we know that that is a really real consideration, it's a huge task to be a whistleblower. I think the difference for climate and environmental whistleblowers, compared to other whistleblowers that we might have thought about before, is that the harm the climate and environmental whistleblowers are speaking about is harm that is best conceived of on a global scale. And, while it may be an individual speaking up on their own, we know that every climate and environmental whistleblower is linked because the harm to the planet is all connected. And so with this resource that we've created, The Climate and Environmental Whistleblower Guide, we're really hoping to empower people. From the person who might be driving a truck who illegally dumps waste, to the person who is responsible for crunching the numbers in the data sets of emissions reporting, to speak up when there's wrongdoing, because we need it now more than ever.

DANIEL:

And what amount of evidence does someone need to blow the whistle? What do they need to come forward with?

REGINA:

So, they don't really need evidence, they need their experience working on the inside of a company or a government body. They need to have witnessed some sort of wrongdoing that they can identify as being wrong. It must be some sort of disclosable conduct which could harm the environment, for example, and they just need to disclose it. They don’t need to gather evidence as such and, in fact, that’s something that we really prioritise as an advice point when people get that legal advice. It’s really, really important that they’re empowered with that knowledge. I think the first thing that you should think about if you want to blow the whistle is, what are you really hoping to get out of it? Can you affect change with your information? And, if so, how do you get legal advice to try and take that initial step?

DANIEL:

And when it comes to Australia's whistleblower protection laws, how do you know if what you're doing is covered under those laws?

REGINA:

It's a really, really good question, Daniel, because I think the laws are confusing. We have so many different laws, whether you're working for a private company you might be covered by the Corporations Act, or if you're working for the public sector you might be covered by the federal or state legislation. So to check if you're covered, what you can do is you can go to our legal resource that we've just created, the Climate and Environmental Whistleblower Guide, or you can seek legal advice and start to find out that information. Generally all organisations, if you're in the public sector for example as a public sector entity, you'll have to have whistleblower information readily available. Most companies now, big large companies in Australia, have to have whistleblower procedures and policies readily available. And so they're also a really, really good place to start.

DANIEL:

The anger around the inaction on climate change in this country has reached boiling point when it comes to protesting climate inaction. We are seeing groups like Extinction Rebellion become even more aggressive with their blockades and protests. Do you think we're likely to see a spike in climate whistleblowers?

REGINA:

Look, we know the science. We know that what we're meant to do is that we're meant to stop the production of new fossil fuels, phase out current fossil fuel projects, and transition to green and sustainable energy projects, yet we know that that's not what the government is doing. And we know that fossil fuel developments aren't going to fix the climate crisis, nor is the one individual climate and environmental whistleblower, but together they can make a real impact. They can tell the truth on numbers of gas emissions which have been significantly underestimated, or speak to what is actually happening in government bodies as to this development.

And so I do think that there's huge scope for climate and environmental whistleblowers to make an impact and we're really hoping to encourage them to come forward. And we've already seen such fantastic results. We have people that we assist, just everyday people doing this work, speaking truth to power in the fossil fuel industry, in banks, superannuation but there's a lot more to be done, you're right.

DANIEL:

Regina, thank you so much for your time.

REGINA:

Thank you.

[Theme Music Starts]

DANIEL:

Also in the news today...

Australia’s top energy regulators estimate the country wouldn’t be able to get nuclear energy online until around 2050.

During an industry event, the head of the Australian Energy Regulator, Clare Savage, said Australia was “probably a decade too late” to implement nuclear energy as recently suggested by The Coalition.

And,

Telstra has been fined $1.5 million for failing to adequately protect customers from scams.

An investigation by the telco watchdog, the Australian Communications and Media Authority, found Telstra failed to comply with regulations introduced in 2022 and left thousands of customers at risk of serious harm.

The watchdog did not find any evidence of losses directly related to the breaches.

I’m Daniel James, thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

[Theme Music Ends]