If Trump loses, will Fox News admit it?
Nov 6, 2024 •
On the eve of the American election, polls say Harris and Trump are neck and neck. Of course, Donald Trump says that’s not true. It’s nothing new for the former president to deny facts.
What is new is the way America’s biggest cable news network is handling it: Fox News has started cutting away from rallies when Trump lies. If he loses the election, and refuses to admit it, the real test of democracy may be in what Fox does next.
If Trump loses, will Fox News admit it?
1390 • Nov 6, 2024
If Trump loses, will Fox News admit it?
[Theme Music Starts]
RUBY:
From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.
On the eve of the American election – polls say Harris and Trump are neck and neck, but of course, if you listen to Donald Trump, he says that’s not true.
Audio Excerpt - Donald Trump:
“They just announced a fake poll, hey think of it right before the election that I’m three points down, I’m not down in Iowa.”
RUBY:
It’s nothing new for the former president, but what is new is the way America’s biggest cable news network is handling it.
Audio Excerpt - News Reporter:
“Alright so there is Former President Trump in Pennsylvania…”
RUBY:
Fox News has started cutting away from rallies where Trump tells lies.
But if Trump loses the election and refuses to admit it, the real test will be in what Fox does next.
Their support of the big lie and the hundreds of millions dollars they had to pay to settle a defamation lawsuit leaves them in a tricky spot: tell MAGA supporters what they want to hear, even if it isn’t true or risk losing a huge audience.
Today, author of The Successor and host of Rupert: the last mogul Paddy Manning on Fox’s role in the US election and how the Murdoch’s secret court case could shape the future of democracy.
It’s Wednesday, November 6.
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[Theme Music Ends]
RUBY:
Okay so, Paddy. It's election week. We arrived.
PADDY:
Terrifying.
RUBY:
We’re about to find out who will win. So as we get closer and closer to that moment, can we talk about how much influence the Murdoch cable network Fox has on this race?
PADDY:
Yes absolutely. I mean as the leading cable news channel which it has been for almost 20 years, it's nothing new that Fox News is setting the agenda through this, you know, US presidential election.
Fox News was alone amongst American, you know cable networks in in really are covering President Biden's increasing age fragility questioning his competence.
Audio Excerpt - Fox News Reporter:
“The White House has a massive problem with Joe Biden. It's an age problem and it's bad. And it's now obvious that Joe Biden is not fit to serve as your president.”
PADDY:
And then, of course, Fox also would feel that the southern border and illegal immigration is one of their top issues. Fox News has been throughout the Biden presidency stoking that issue.
Audio Excerpt - Fox News Reporter:
“Wait until you hear this, the director of immigration and customs enforcement confirms that more than 13,000 illegal immigrants convicted of murder have been caught at the border and released in the United States.”
PADDY:
So, I think Fox News has had a big impact on the support for Trump but they have been a little bit careful when it comes to the dangerous territory of election denial and that looks like a policy position that they've taken.
Audio Excerpt - Donald Trump:
“And from that moment on, it was a whole different ballgame in Texas and all over.”
Audio Excerpt - Fox News Reporter:
“All right. We'll continue to monitor this. Just one slight thing I just wanted to add, because when you hear it and you heard it from Donald Trump about the 2020 election and it got millions more votes and actually did get millions more votes, he still lost that election.”
RUBY:
Mm well let's talk about what happened in the last election briefly in 2020 because I think that is relevant here. When Fox called Arizona for Joe Biden, that turned into a watershed moment for the network, didn't it?
PADDY:
Yes, when the decision desk called Arizona a swing state for Biden, which made it almost impossible for Trump to win. That was an absolutely critical moment in the history of Fox News, as well as in the history of view of US politics. Because the ratings for Fox News plunged and Fox News panicked. We know now that from the very top at the level of Rupert Murdoch and Lachlan Murdoch themselves and all the executive leadership at Fox News, they were panicking about the haemorrhaging of viewers to the right. And what we saw then was the beginning of the Big Lie.
Audio Excerpt - Maria Bartiromo:
“An Intel source telling me that President Trump did, in fact, win the election.”
Audio Excerpt - Sidney Powell:
“We're talking about the alteration and changes in millions of votes, some being dumped that were for President Trump, some being flip that were for President Trump.”
Audio Excerpt - Judge Jeanine Piro:
“We don’t know how many votes were stolen on Tuesday night. We don't know anything about the software that many say was rigged, we don’t know.”
PADDY:
And that was a baseless conspiracy theory. And we saw that culminate, of course, in the insurrection where Trump's supporters stormed the Capital. And that was the moment when Lachlan proved himself as Rupert’s successor because Fox News did succeed in winning back the MAGA audience. The big Lie it did work, but it also led to the one of the biggest defamation settlements ever in American history.
RUBY:
So what lessons do you think that the Murdochs took from having to pay that huge amount of money?
PADDY:
Well since then, a lot has happened. Fox News avoided Trump for a long time. I wouldn't put him on air. And then when they did put him on air, they would not carry him live to make sure that they had a chance to edit out any, you know, damaging or dangerous, you know, election denial, for example, that he might spout.
Audio Excerpt - Donald Trump:
“The polls are just as corrupt as some of the writers back there.”
PADDY:
Just in the last 24 hours, we've seen an example where, there's just been a poll that's come out that Kamala Harris is ahead in Iowa. And he started at a rally dissing that poll.
Audio Excerpt - Donald Trump:
“I've got a poll of ten points up in Iowa. One of my enemies just puts out a poll. I'm three down.”
PADDY:
And and at that point, they cut away from his comments. And that has done that a few times this year. So they are clearly watching like hawks for those moments where Trump is straying into his lying.
RUBY:
So Fox is being more careful than it has been in the past. How is Trump handling that?
PADDY:
Well Democrats in this cycle rather than seeing Fox News purely as the enemy have realised they need to be so there. And so Trump is constantly taking shots at Fox News on his Truth Social platform. For example, with the interview that Bret Baier with Kamala Harris
Audio Excerpt - News Host:
“You’re not Joe Biden, you’re not Donald Trump, but nothing comes to mind that you would do differently?”
Audio Excerpt - Kamala Harris:
“Let me be very clear, my Presidency will not be a continuation of Joe Biden’s presidency.”
PADDY:
Trump was complaining that Democrats appearing on Fox News were having quite a negative effect on the election. And he has complained about the Harris campaign running ads on Fox News.
Audio Excerpt - Donald Trump:
“For 19 days I don't think we should do that anymore. I think you shouldn't play negative ads.
Audio Excerpt - News Host:
“Because they buy time on Fox.”
Audio Excerpt - Donald Trump:
“You know, by the time you do it.”
PADDY:
And met actually personally with Rupert Murdoch and told him don't put on negative commercials. “don't put on there, the horrible people that come in”.
Audio Excerpt - Download Trump:
“They're horrible people. They come and lie. I'm going to say, Rupert, please do it this way. And then we're going to have a victory, because I think everyone wants that.”
PADDY:
He just doesn’t want any democrats on Fox News at all. Now whether, you know, Rupert Murdoch obviously prepared to sit down with Trump, that doesn't mean Trump will get his way. Nonetheless, he's getting lots of soft coverage, some of it kind of cringe worthy. And last week, he was on Fox and Friends, and I was asked by a viewer what his favourite farm animal was.
RUBY:
What is it?
PADDY:
Cows.
Audio Excerpt - Donald Trump:
“I love cows, but if you go with Kamala, you won’t have cows anymore. Because she wouldn’t allow it. I don’t wanna ruin this kid’s day.”
PADDY:
Inside Fox News, they would probably feel that, you know, they're doing something right if they get they're getting on the left and right by Democrats and also by Trump.
But the real test of this will be how Fox News covers Trump. If he loses and refuses to accept defeat.
RUBY:
After the break - the family battle that could determine the future of Fox News.
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Audio Excerpt - Donald Trump:
“They are fighting so hard to steal this damn thing. Look at what's going on and look at what's going on in your state every day they’re talking about extending hours…whoever heard of this stuff.”
RUBY:
Paddy, in recent days, we've been hearing Donald Trump and his team laying the groundwork for another stolen election claim should he lose. So if that possibility does come to pass, how do you think that Fox News will react this time?
PADDY:
Well, I think this is the biggest test for Lachlan Murdoch, who is indisputably now in charge of the Murdoch Media empire Since Rupert retired at the end of last year.
This is the first U.S. presidential election in which Lachlan Murdoch has the ultimate say and if Fox News does again what it did in 2020 and allowed baseless claims of a stolen election to go to air and to and to gain traction within the MAGA audience. I think Fox News is positioned in the coverage of the aftermath of this election will be absolutely critical to the acceptance of the election result on the right. And I think that is the test for Lachlan Murdoch this time around. Are we going to see a repeat of 2020 in 2024?
RUBY:
And there are many tests for Lachlan Murdoch lining up. There is, of course, a court case in Nevada happening right now. Can you tell me about that?
PADDY:
Yes. Well, and I think that connected Ruby. So since July, we've known since The New York Times broke this incredible story that the Murdoch family themselves are at war in court over the an attempt by Rupert and Lachlan Murdoch to amend the terms of the Murdoch Family Trust.
Audio Excerpt - News Reporter:
“The real life succession battle playing out in Nevada courtroom. Rupert Murdoch is fighting to change his family, trust so his eldest son gets control of his media empire.”
Audio Excerpt - News Reporter:
“The 93 year old tycoon wanting to protect the conservative leanings of his media portfolio, which includes Fox News, the Wall Street Journal and New York Post.”
Audio Excerpt - Speaker 1:
“The family feud pits Murdoch and his eldest son Lachlan, against the three other siblings, James Elizabeth and Prudence, his eldest child.”
PADDY:
What we found out was that Rupert had gone to a Nevada court, to amend the family trust so that when he died, Lachlan would get unassailable control of the trust and could not be outvoted by his siblings.
Audio Excerpt - Unknown:
“Mr Murdoch are you confident of victory?”
PADDY:
We saw in September an extraordinary scenes of something out of succession, all sides of the Murdoch family arriving in their cars trundling up.
Audio Excerpt - News Reporter:
"Any comment?"
PADDY:
…to give evidence in this seal proceedings. And we're waiting for news as to how that court case will result. And, you know, either way, the likelihood is, given the calibre and the lawyers on both sides here, that you will see an appeal. So this could drag on for months.
RUBY:
Right. So it seems like depending on what happens with this case, on who comes out victorious, this could be the last election that Fox will wield this level of influence within the American right.
PADDY:
That's an interesting question. So. It depends on your interpretation of what the siblings are trying to achieve here. So James Murdoch has been outspoken. He and his wife, Catherine, have been prominent donors to the Democrats. They have been critical of the Murdoch media over election denial, over coverage of race issues and conspiracy theories like the great replacement theory.
But they also have an argument that bears on the business of Fox News itself, which is that if you could preserve the centre right politics, but just dial down the crazy, you might be able to avoid, you know, expensive defamation payouts. And it might be that that is a better way to run Fox News longer term. Of course the proceedings are sealed, so it's all speculation. But I think that will be part of the argument that James and the siblings are making inside that Nevada courtroom.
Rupert's argument is that Lachlan is the best steward of the Murdoch Media assets. They argue it would be economic suicide to try and tack Fox News back towards the middle. So if Fox News was undermining the election results. I don't think that would be a great look for their legal team inside that Nevada courtroom.
And I think that Fox will not want to have a repeat of 2020. They don’t want to be writing any more defamation checks. They don't want any more litigation coming out of this election. But also, I think it must be in the back of Lachlan Murdoch's mind that how irresponsible coverage of the 2024 election might sound inside the Nevada courtroom in that court case that he is now in, embroiled in with his siblings.
RUBY:
Paddy thanks so much for your time today.
PADDY:
Thank you Ruby.
RUBY:
To hear more about that court case, you can listen to Paddy Manning’s 3 part podcast series Murdoch’s EndGame which aired on ABC’s Background Briefing.
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[Theme Music Starts]
RUBY:
Also in the news today,
A legal challenge against Elon Musk’s million dollar voter giveaway has failed in a court in Pennsylvania with a judge ruling the election stunt can continue.
Musk pledged to hand out 1 million dollars daily to registered swing state voters who sign his PAC’s petition with the PAC already giving away 17 million dollars US.
Musk’s lawyer argued that the giveaway was not an illegal lottery, revealing that the winners were not chosen by chance as Musk had previously implied, but instead preselected based on who would make an effective spokesperson for the campaign.
And, opposition leader Peter Dutton has warned the Coalition party room against speaking out on abortion laws, following comments made by Nationals senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price in a media interview condemning late-term abortions.
In a private party room address leaked to the media, Dutton confirmed that there will be no changes to their policies if they win government.
I’m Ruby Jones, thanks for listening.
And 7am will be back tomorrow with coverage of the US election results.
[Theme Music Ends]
On the eve of the American election, polls say Harris and Trump are neck and neck. Of course, Donald Trump says that’s not true.
It’s nothing new for the former president to deny facts. What is new is the way America’s biggest cable news network is handling it: Fox News has started cutting away from rallies when Trump lies.
The network’s support of the big lie – that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump, led to a defamation lawsuit that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to settle. And now the Murdoch broadcaster is in a tricky spot: tell MAGA supporters what they want to hear, even if it isn’t true, or risk losing a huge audience.
So what does Fox do if Trump loses this election, and refuses to admit it?
Today, author of The Successor and host of Rupert: The last mogul Paddy Manning on Fox’s role in the US election and how the Murdochs’ secret court case could shape the future of democracy.
Guest: Author of The Successor and host of Rupert: The last mogul Paddy Manning
7am is a daily show from Schwartz Media and The Saturday Paper.
Our hosts are Ruby Jones and Daniel James.
It’s produced by Cheyne Anderson and Zoltan Fecso.
Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow.
We are edited by Chris Dengate and Sarah McVeigh.
Erik Jensen is our editor-in-chief.
Our mixer is Travis Evans.
Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio.
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