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ANGE:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ange McCormack. This is 7am.

For three years, China and Australia had virtually frozen their diplomatic ties – our largest trading partner and regional superpower was not picking up the phone.

But with the release of Australian journalist Cheng Lei, the scrapping of some trade tariffs and an upcoming visit by Anthony Albanese, there’s a rapid change in the relationship.

So, what will Albanese want to get out of the trip, and what is China’s perception of Australia after years of tension?

Today, fresh from a trip to Beijing, chief political correspondent for The Saturday Paper, Karen Middleton, on whether we’re entering a new era in Australia’s relationship with China.

It’s Monday, October 30th.

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ANGE:

Karen, you've just returned from a reporting trip in China. Can you tell me about why you went and what you did?

KAREN:

Yes Ange. it was a journalism exchange. It used to happen annually or year about where some Australian journalists would go to China and Chinese journalists would come to Australia. But the last time it was on was in 2019 and this year they resurrected it. It stopped because of COVID. But also in the background, of course, relations between the two countries have not been good for some years. And I think just the fact that it was going ahead was interesting because there's been this freeze - relations not just between governments, but relations involving journalists have been bad. The last two correspondents for Australian media had to leave China in 2020. Bill Birtles and Mike Smith from the ABC in the Financial Review.

Audio excerpt – Reporter:

“Back on home soil. The last two accredited Australian journalists working in China have been repatriated by their employers after spending days sheltering in diplomatic compounds as Chinese authorities banned them from leaving the country.”

KAREN:

While there are Australians working for other international organisations there, there aren't Australians by state working for Australian media at the moment. So the fact that they wanted us there at this time was in itself pretty interesting.

The first day we arrived late on a Saturday night and the first day sun was looking around, Beijing's worked and some a palace. We went to the Forbidden City. We went to the gardens next to the city, climbed the hill with, I think, all of Beijing. And I looked out across the city but it just struck me. It looked different to the last time I was there. Everyone's on phones, nobody is using cash anymore, and the whole country is sort of really raging ahead in terms of artificial intelligence, in terms of information technology, robotics. On the whole, it was a really very interesting experience.

ANGE:

Even being able to go on this trip represents a thawing, I guess, of the relationship with China and Australia. And there's been quite a few developments on that front recently actually. Can you tell me about those and whether they add up to a genuine mending of our relationship with China?

KAREN:

It is genuine, but the government in Australia is very careful not to call this a normalisation or a reset. They are talking about stabilising the relationship, removing some of the obstacles, both in terms of diplomacy and the economic obstacles that have been placed on our trade relationship. Most recently when the Prime Minister confirmed that he will in fact visit Beijing in early November. He also announced that the Chinese side had indicated they were taking further steps to wind back those really big tariffs they placed on Australian wine.

Audio excerpt – Reporter:

“China's trade tariffs on Australian wine could soon be abolished. The Chinese Ministry of Commerce is flagging a new package solution to the standoff.”

KAREN:

The other big change we saw literally just a few days before our group went to China was the release of Australian journalist Cheng Lei, who's been in detention in China for three years.

Audio excerpt – Reporter:

“More than 1000 days behind bars today. Freedom. Australian journalist Cheng Lei, embraced by Foreign Minister Penny Wong at Melbourne Airport this afternoon.”

KAREN:

She's an Australian of Chinese heritage. She was born there. She's a business journalist and she had been arrested and jailed and had not seen her children or her partner for three years. And suddenly she was released and there'd been a lot of diplomacy involved in that back and forth and no accident of timing that it occurred before the Prime Minister arrived. And I found it interesting that it occurred just a few days before we went as well, because being journalists, we would, of course, have been asking questions about that. So that happened. And when we did ask questions about where people thought the relationship had gone bad, there were various points in the timeline nominated. And most commonly, I think there was the Australian decision to restrict Huawei, the Chinese telecommunications company, access to our systems, to the to the NBN and to the 5G network. And interestingly, the Morrison Government's very public chastising of China over the origins of COVID 19 and demands for an international inquiry. Those things came up repeatedly. And underneath all of it, the problems China is having with the United States, which is really putting a lot of pressure on their economy and I think I felt was one of the motivators for getting back with Australia, getting back on an even keel, because they really do need us. We have a trade surplus with China. And so the objective here now is to have, you know, a smoother trade relationship, a better economic relationship and dialogue.

ANGE:

And I think generally in Australia we think of the relationship we have with China as being tense, that there are risks posed by China. How did the people you spoke with on the trip see it, though?

KAREN:

Yes, it depends who you were talking to. We went to some meetings in Beijing. We went to the Central Party School for the Communist Party of China. And then we had a meeting at the Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies, and they were saying they were puzzled at what they saw as anti-China sentiment.

But at the Institute these were academics from universities and from the institute itself, very well versed in our bilateral relationship. And one of them had done a master's in Australian study. So they know a lot about our country and they were talking in quite a lot of detail both about the economic relationship and the Chinese economy, but also the political and diplomatic relationship.

They wanted to know why do you think we're a risk? And they were also very critical of the Morrison government in particular. And there was very much a sense the Chinese side was seizing the opportunity of a change of government to try and get things back to a more functional relationship.

This weekend, Anthony Albanese becomes the first Australian Prime Minister to visit China in seven years. And that's a big deal. Late last year was the 50th anniversary of the formal establishment of bilateral relations between the then Whitlam government and the Chinese government under Mao in 1972. And then in 1973 Gough Whitlam travelled to China and this visit by Anthony Albanese is marking 50 years since that.

And I think we will see a lot of reference back to the, the optimism that was around that original gesture and trying to rekindle some of that as the relationship goes forward in a more complicated time.

ANGE:

Coming up after the break - What will Australia get out of Albanese’s historic trip to China?

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ANGE:

Karen, your reporting trip to China came ahead of Anthony Albanese's first visit to China. What is he hoping to get out of that trip, do you think?

KAREN:

I think there's a view on both sides that there is just there is value in clearer communication and conversation. The Chinese economy has moved so much that they now see that the benefits in trying to re-establish ties outweigh the downsides. So I think Australia wants free flowing trade and I think they want more free flowing discussion. And we got that message from those we spoke to from the Chinese side. We want to be able to have discussions with you and we want to be able to discuss the things we disagree with as well as the things on which we can work together. They also say, and so does Australia. There are areas where we really need to work together. Big areas like climate change, climate action, green energy. There's continued to be, but there is also scope to be more of work on law enforcement, you know, transnational crime.

So there are areas where there's a lot of benefit to work with a power like China, but they maintain differences over geopolitics, over security. And there are still suspicions from our side about China's cyber activities and its military plans, criticisms of a lack of transparency. We had a funny conversation about transparency and how that's in the eye of the beholder. And from the Chinese side, suspicions about our ties to the United States, our intentions, whether or not our AUKUS submarine deal, which they sort of poked fun at a bit, was part of a wider plan to set up a sort of NATO's style organisation in Asia. And they're not happy about our relations in security dialogues like the quadrilateral dialogue involving India, Japan, the US and Australia. So I know the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister from the Australian side have said very publicly, repeatedly they want guardrails around the relationship to make sure it can't go off the road and the this really establishing ties is part of that exercise. You're much less likely to have some misunderstanding that leads to something dramatic in the security domain if you're having constant contact and if you understand where each side is coming from.

ANGE:

So it sounds like there's quite a few sticking points that could come up on this trip. How optimistic do you think both sides are about working through those and having a productive visit between the countries and, you know, further improving the relationship?

KAREN:

I think they're optimistic because each side knows what they are. And what we've seen in the last 18 months in particular is a lot of work diplomatically behind the scenes to lay out where those difficulties are. So I think the message the Australian government is sending is, yes, we have goodwill towards China, we want to reconnect, we want the economies of the two countries engaged more, but we're not changing our view on security. The policy settings from the previous government that so annoyed the Chinese have not been changed. So we saw kind of provocatively really a meeting of the Five Eyes, which is Australia and its its close ally partners, intelligence chiefs in North America in the last couple of weeks and a very rare public statement made by the Australians and the Americans about China's capabilities and what they're concerned about in the cyber domain.

We're not throwing open the doors and saying it's all, all is forgiven, everything is normal. We're not doing that and neither are the Chinese.

ANGE:

And Karen, as you said, Anthony Albanese's trip is on the 50th anniversary of Gough Whitlam's visit to China. And our relationship with China has ebbed and flowed in that time. How will this visit shape our relationship with China? Could it be a high point for us, or is the goal actually much more modest than that?

KAREN:

I think it's both, funnily enough. I don't know that anyone should expect some dramatic thing as a result of these few days coming up. It's a long, slow process and continuing and, you know, there are still these sticking points underneath the broad security relationship, the militarisation, as Australia sees it, of China's activities in the South China Sea and around Taiwan. From the Chinese point of view, they're very irritated at Australia's engagement with the US and Australia being willing to back in the US position in the South China Sea, that sort of thing. And there are human rights issues that continue. You know, Xinjiang and the treatment of the people there is a point of concern for Australia and other countries on the Chinese side. They defend their activities in Xinjiang and maintain their existing position on questions of human rights. And in Australia we still have another Australian detained over there, Yang Hengjun is an Australian writer. Nobody much wants to talk about him. It's not clear what what’s the fate of Yang Hengjun. Perhaps something will move on that point on that front. At the moment everyone is quiet about him, so there will be outstanding issues. But I think what we will see from this visit is a willingness to talk more frankly with each other about them and try and work through them.

So this is not going to be ultimately a completely free and open relationship with China, but a gradual warming towards something that's more functional and hopefully makes conflict less likely.

ANGE:

Karen, thanks so much for your time today.

KAREN:

Thanks Ange.

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ANGE:

Also in the news today…

The United Nations general assembly has passed a resolution calling for an “immediate, durable and sustainable humanitarian truce” in Gaza and the immediate release of all civilians held captive.

The resolution passed with 120 nations in favour, 14 against and 45 abstaining – including Australia.

Australia’s ambassador to the UN blamed not voting for a humanitarian truce on the fact that the resolution did not name Hamas.

And…

All phone and internet connections were cut in Gaza by Israeli military strikes over the weekend, leaving satellite phones and transmissions as the only way to communicate with the outside world.

The international journalism federation said in a statement that: “A communications blackout is a news blackout,” saying that as news organisations lose the ability to reach their journalists in Gaza, the public’s ability to know and understand what is happening in this conflict is severely compromised.

I’m Ange McCormack, this is 7am. We’ll be back again tomorrow.

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