This week, 7am spoke with former Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce, as he returned to public life with a memoir defending many of the decisions he made during his final years at the airline.

Joyce said the company was fighting for survival during the pandemic and that, while mistakes were made, the difficult decisions taken under his leadership were necessary to keep Qantas from going under.

Today, we revisit our conversation with journalist and author Joe Aston, recorded after Qantas was handed a record $90 million penalty for illegally outsourcing 1,800 workers.

It asks what those decisions cost, whether they really were necessary, and whether the airline has actually changed since Joyce’s departure.

The episode originally aired in August 2025.

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Guest: Rampart founder and author of The Chairman's Lounge: The Inside Story of How Qantas Sold Us Out, Joe Aston