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DANIEL:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Daniel James, this is 7am.

David Anderson has resigned as managing director of the ABC.

Anderson is an ABC lifer. He first joined the ABC in 1989 and worked his way to the top spending almost six years as the head of the national broadcaster.

His decision comes as a shock to many. It was only last year he accepted a second term offered to him by outgoing chairperson Ita Buttrose in one of her last acts in the role.

But with Buttrose gone, and a new chair in Kim Williams, the future of the ABC now looks markedly different.

Today, ABC veteran Jon Faine tells us what he thinks of the leadership at the ABC and who might replace David Anderson.

It’s Friday, August 23.

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DANIEL:

Jon, are you surprised to hear that David Anderson has quit given he’s only really just started his second term in the role?

JON:

I'm surprised because when Ita, on her way out the door, gave him a new contract, it was implicit in that that he wanted to see out a fair chunk of it. Now, you know, Kim Williams is a force to be reckoned with, but they've said very nice things about each other from day one. And I'm aware there's, I mean, people talk about there's a bit of tension on the top floor of Ultimo. That's a good thing. There should be people nervous on the top floor at Ultimo with Kim Williams out there on the warpath. Apart from which I think, this is going to sound really horrible but I'm going to say it anyway, I don't think they've done the sort of job where they should feel that they aren't under pressure. I actually think the organisation’s gone backwards on a whole lot of measures, but that ought to make the top managers very anxious and nervous.

I mean, let me put it this way. Let us take, first of all, radio. If there was one program on one radio station on one network that was struggling, you'd say that's got a problem. The presenter is not cutting through, or the producers aren’t choosing the right subjects or the right talent, and it's not working. If you've got a whole radio station that's struggling you say, well, there's a bit of a problem in that particular capital city or regional or network whatever it might be. But that's the next thing, the network. You've got whole stations, whole networks that are struggling. Local radio, radio, national news radio, Triple J, they're all struggling. So what have they got in common? It's not an individual presenter or a team or a station. It's the thing they've got in common which is the management.

And the culture at the management level under Ita Buttrose became risk averse. And I ended up like everyone, I was excited when she was appointed, she said lots of really good things. And then the dampeners came down and she measured success by reducing the number of politicians and powerful people complaining about the ABC. Well that's just wrong. if we're doing our job, then people will be complaining and that's a good thing. And so it started to be risk averse, anodyne, don't make waves, don't upset people, and it meant it wasn't as interesting to listen to or to watch on television as well.

DANIEL:

Do you think that Ita Buttrose should have held off on David Anderson's reappointment until a new chair was in place?

JON:

I'll go harder than that. Ita Buttrose should have left a year before she did, and she shouldn't, and no chair of a board should, appoint someone to a key position on their way out the door. It's just plain wrong. You're tying the hands of the incoming people, which is not right. It's just wrong. It's wrong whether it's a public broadcaster or any other institution, public or private. It's the same in corporate life, you don't do it.

DANIEL:

David Anderson was at the ABC for decades. He worked in a lot of different departments. He became the head of television, then the director of entertainment and specialist overseeing all the ABC’s radio networks. So he knew the organisation before he got to the job. But what was he like as managing director in your view?

JON:

I think he's been terrific as a managing director. I've got on, on my occasions when I dealt with him, he was always very congenial, very supportive. He loves the ABC. He lives and breathes the ABC. He understands the nuance and the detail and the culture. He is popular with most of the people he needs to work with.

When he came up to Senate estimates, when he came up to public grillings, he always stood up for the organisation. He was a champion. And, you know, he himself is the first to say he's not a rock star but he was always prepared to go in and have a go and bat hard for the ABC. And for that, I think he deserves everybody's thanks.

He did have a board, which for a while in fact I think, you know going back in history, there were people on the ABC board, if you go far enough back, there were people who were absolutely hostile to the ABC and was specifically appointed to try and bash it up from the inside. And I'm talking about Janet Albrechtsen and Michael Kroger and the whole Jonathan Shier experiment, which was just nothing short of disastrous. And then you ended up with Michelle Guthrie, who I crossed swords with, and Justin Milne, and they both left. And, you know, they were planning to sack me and other key people because we were upsetting people on the conservative side of politics by holding power to account, which is what our job is. But, their response was, oh no it makes it harder for us to go to Canberra and get funding so you have to go. I mean, that's just outrageous stuff.

DANIEL:

How critical was David in steadying the ship after all that tumult that you just mentioned?

JON:

And that's I think the key thing. And he restored the faith of a lot of staff in the capacity of management to actually manage. The ABC, I mean, it's a very volatile environment. It's a very volatile, it's an enormous organisation. And, you know, there's a lot of people there who don't like being told what to do, which, from the manager's point of view is pretty tricky.

DANIEL:

In recent years, the ABC has overtly or inadvertently found itself in the midst of the culture wars that would add to the complexity of someone like David Anderson's job. What were some of the challenges that he faced in relation to all that?

JON:

So there's a lot of this confected outrage that comes from, you know, the usual suspects.

Audio Excerpt - Sky News Peta Credlin:

“The ABC is running this kind of propaganda via it’s own uninformed reporters, and you are paying for it…”

Audio Excerpt - Sky News Rita Panahi:

“Is the far left ABC institutionally racist Kosher?”

Audio Excerpt - Sky News Presenter:

“What do you call a quiet Australian in the ABC? Lonely, very lonely.“

JON:

I noticed recently Kim Williams said, the ABC should take notice of what those confected outrage manufacturers, what they're doing. But by and large, you know, notice it but don't respond and react to it and don't ever let them set their agenda.

So, I don't think for a minute that, for instance, the Murdoch muckrakers and the shock jocks and people like that should be setting the agenda for Australian newsgathering and news conversations and the zeitgeist. But, in fact, the ABC amplifies them by reacting and responding and taking on board what they say. And yeah, David's found himself caught up in some of those outrages, but I wish the ABC would just chuckle and move on.

DANIEL:

The ABC has some big problems. It’s reaching fewer Australians each week than at any time in the past decade, and this comes after the Labor government restored funding to the broadcaster, so what do you think an incoming managing director needs to know about and do about all that?

JON:

So the first thing any incoming MD should be told is restructures are not the answer, so the structure is not the problem. And don't start thinking that by shuffling the deck chairs you're in any way saving the Titanic. It's rubbish. You know, we're not having a rebranding. We're not having a reorganisation. Just forget that it's a waste of energy, a waste of resources, and the collective groan from thousands of ABC staff if you announced another restructure would be audible around the country. Don't even think about it.

Get rid of some of the frippery and some of the lifestyle and some of the nonsense around the edges and put our resources into the things the public really values from us, and the public do value the ABC, and make sure that we do it better. You know, Radio National's fantastic, I just want it to be better. It rates insignificantly. Well, with all that content, how do we get better value out of the enormous amounts of money that we're spending on making it? Which most Australians aren't even aware of, they’re oblivious to it. Well, that's not good enough anymore.

DANIEL:

Coming up after the break, how the ABC under its new chair Kim Williams is going to change.

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DANIEL:

You’ve seen a few chairs of the ABC in your time, Jon.

JON:

Yeah.

DANIEL:

Kim Williams seems to be particularly outspoken about editorial direction and criticism of focus of things like hard news. Is that an unusual thing to hear from a chair? A criticism of the ABC's own decision making in such a public way?

JON:

I think it's fabulous and I welcome it, and I agree with it. And I think it's great that he's prepared to call a spade a spade. Now there's an interesting dilemma here, because if there was a chair of the board who said things I didn't agree with I'd be outraged, I'd say they shouldn't interfere. But because he's saying things that I agree with, I'm going hooray and cheering him on.

So no, I don't think the chair of the board shouldn't be getting into the weeds of making programmes, but if the chair of the board has concerns I actually think it's fabulous that he's expressing them and he's putting people under pressure. And so he should.

This week, the ABC rolled out a new digital front page on the ABC.net.au website. And immediately it's full of all these sort of lifestyle stories which, quite frankly, I think are a total waste of the ABC's time, money and resources and energy and emotion. I don't know why they think anybody cares about some of that stuff, because it's just not what the ABC should be doing. And the energy and the resources should instead be put into more investigatory pieces, more holding power to account, and I care about which coffee is the most ordered coffee, you know, in Timbuktu or whatever. Give me a break. I mean, you know, The Project can do that. If the ABC wants to be taken seriously and wants an audience, how about making compelling content instead of trying to go downmarket?

DANIEL:

Are there any obvious contenders to replace David Anderson?

JON:

Kim Williams.

DANIEL:

You really think he's up for the role, to do both?

JON:

I think it would be poorly seen and poorly regarded as if, oh I’ll, It's a sort of Messiah syndrome. So in that sense, I don't think you do both.

It's going to be a really interesting one. Does Kim think he can bring about more change as managing director? In which case, does he take the gamble of resigning from the chairman of the board in order to put forward his application? Or does he go, No, I can shape the organisation here from the chair? But he has long aspired to run the ABC. If he doesn't apply for it, he'll look for someone in his image. He'll look for someone who is as sceptical of fads and fashions of technology that the ABC occasionally seems to get completely tied up into knots about. Remember Mark Scott spent a fortune on Myspace? Well, you know, hello. But, that sense of urgency and relentless pursuit of better standards, how can anyone possibly complain or about that?

DANIEL:

Jon Faine, thank you so much for your time.

JON:

It's been fun.

SARAH:

Anything we haven't asked you about that you think..?

JON:

Yeah, who should be the next host of Media Watch.

DANIEL:

Who?

JON:

Maybe David Anderson could be free to do it. Well, that's the story. David Anderson has resigned so he can host Media Watch. There you are, there’s a scoop for you.

DANIEL:

It all makes sense.

JON:

Ha!

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DANIEL:

Also in the news today,

Senator Linda Reynolds’ lawyers have launched another lawsuit against Brittany Higgins with the aim of gaining access to her $2.4 million federal government settlement.

When Ms Higgins received the funds she placed them in a trust. The new lawsuit seeks to have the funds released from the trust to Ms Higgins so that if Senator Reynolds wins her defamation case it will make it easier for her to gain access to them.

And new parents could soon earn superannuation on top of government-funded paid parental leave under new laws introduced to federal parliament.

The laws would allow for parents to get 12% superannuation, helping 180,000 families who access government-funded leave following the birth of a child.

7am is a daily show from Schwartz Media and The Saturday Paper.

It’s produced by Cheyne Anderson, Zoltan Fesco, and Zaya Altangerel.

Our senior producer is Chris Dengate. Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow.

Sarah McVeigh is our head of audio. Erik Jensen is our editor-in-chief.

Mixing by Travis Evans, Atticus Bastow, and Zoltan Fecso.

Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio.

7am is hosted by Ruby Jones and myself, Daniel James.

See you next week.

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