Archival tape – Julia Banks:

“Often when good women call out, or are subjected to, bad behaviour, the reprisals, backlash, and commentary portrays them as the bad ones: the liar, the troublemaker, the emotionally unstable or weak, or someone who should be silenced. To those who say politics is not for the faint hearted, and that women have to toughen up, I say this, the hallmark characteristics of the Australian woman — and I've met thousands of them — be they in my local community, in politics, business, the media or sport, are resilience, and a strong, authentic, independent spirit.”

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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.

When Liberal MP Julia Banks quit the Morrison government in 2018, her resignation was cited as an example of the hostile environment for women in parliament, and the challenges for women at the very top of politics.

But Banks’ story and her resignation happened to coincide with a landmark report: Respect@Work.

That report - and the changes it recommended - languished, but are now finally coming into effect, and in theory, should change the workplace for women.

Today, former politician Julia Banks, on the report she watched be pushed aside, and her hope that this year it’s finally going to change our workplaces for the better.

It’s Thursday, January 19.

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RUBY:

Julia. I thought we could start by going back to 2018, when you were a Liberal MP who had decided to quit, and the reason that you gave at the time was the cultural and gender bias, bullying, and intimidation of women in politics.

So four years on from that moment when you reflect on the decision that you made. What do you think? And just how bad was that environment at that time?

Julia:

Yeah, well, it was a two stage process when I quit. The first stage was immediately after the leadership coup against Malcolm Turnbull, where Scott Morrison took over the leadership as Prime Minister. I advised that I was not going to recontest the next election. Morrison didn't like that decision, didn't like a number of decisions that I made at that time, but tried very hard to persuade me to change my mind. But I went ahead with it. Under Morrison's leadership, I was put through, basically a systematic takedown. Even from his first press conference, it was basically three months of taking me through, what I call, “the sexist spectrum”. Anything from being the weak petal, right through to the troublemaker, you know, to the bullying bitch. It was extraordinary, and particularly the Murdoch press, were obviously weaponized with all this background in and gaslighting. So I made the decision then, if I was to exit this place, I was going to exit on my terms. It was a principled decision and not in terms of the way I'd been painted.

RUBY:

And it was during your time in parliament that the Respect@Work report was commissioned – though it took a long time for it to be released, and then for its recommendations to actually be taken on board. Can you talk me through that?

Julia:

Yeah, sure. So on the back of the MeToo movement in 2017 — which had global ramifications around the world — one of the outcomes of that was that, under the Turnbull Government, the Respect@Work report was commissioned by the Turnbull Government. It was undertaken by the Sex Discrimination Commissioner and submitted in 2020, which by then was under the Morrison Government.

Archival tape – Kate Jenkins:

“Across all parliamentary workplaces, 40% of women have been sexually harassed compared to 26% of men. Women we spoke to told us they “felt lucky” when they had not directly experienced sexual harassment or sexual assault.”

Julia:

Now it was languishing on the desks of the Coalition under Morrison's leadership.

Archival tape – Scott Morrison:

“Like anyone who works in this building, I find the statistics that are presented there are, of course, appalling and disturbing. I wish I found them more surprising. But I find them just as appalling.”

Julia:

And it was really only brought out and talked about amidst the public controversy that was emanating in 2020, with a cascade of events, in regard to the treatment of women.

And then when they finally did come about to implementing it, they only noted, they didn't enact. There were 55 recommendations and they only noted the positive duty on the employer. They shelved that and put it away.
The Albanese Government met their commitment, to implement all 55 recommendations and enact that as law at the end of last year, which is currently being rolled out in 2023.

RUBY:

So when you look back on that period of time when Scott Morrison was in power and the Respect@Work report was kind of sitting there languishing and not much was being done. What do you kind of notice now when you think about the tenor of the conversation around women's rights at work?

Julia:

Well, one thing that really came to the fore was the use of gender stereotypes by Morrison himself, and indeed his government. In the midst of this controversy about the treatment of women.

Archival tape – Scott Morrison:

“These things happened to our mothers, our grandmothers, our great grandmothers. You know, it's been going on a long time. And, you know, that doesn't rest at the foot of any one government, or one individual, or anything like this.”

Julia:

Morrison was actually asked about the workplace culture, which he led.

Archival tape – Scott Morrison:

“You know, blokes don’t get it right all the time. We all know that.”

Julia:

And and then he sort of laughed and signed off with.

Archival tape – Scott Morrison:

“And I'm just glad the footy is back on too. Yeah, that helps everybody.”

Julia:

It was just an extraordinary thing to say. It was so much his sort of modus operandi that distractions are better than solutions. It was a classic distraction using gender stereotypes. Another one was when he said, of all times, at an International Women's Day event.

Archival tape – Scott Morrison:

“We want to see women rise, but we don't want to see women rise only on the basis of others doing worse.”

Julia:

You know, that statement on International Women's Day attracted global headlines for all the wrong reasons. Those gender stereotypes is what makes the whole context of sexual harassment a really endemic thing in workplaces. So it's very much up to the leadership of any organisation, not only to make the meaningful change, but to be part of that change and to recognise these issues.

RUBY:

We'll be back in a moment.

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RUBY:

Julia, let's talk about legislative change because the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, is committed to the Respect@Work report, and one part of that is coming into existence this year, and that is the change in the onus and burden on reporting harassment. So as of this year, that burden will fall on the employer to take action, to eliminate sexual harassment. So can you talk to me about that? How in theory does this change the workplace for people?

Julia:

So in my view, it's akin to the epic law reform we had back in the eighties. In 1984, we had the Sex Discrimination Act, and the Sex Discrimination Act was landmark legislation at the time. And it certainly made it unlawful for sexual harassment. But a flaw of that act was that it put the burden on the victim to complain. Now, I'm sure thousands, if not millions of women, during their working life have asked themselves the question, or asked it out loud, “Should I say something?” We know that sexual harassment is clouded. It's clouded by a perfectly reasonable fear. Women fear for their careers, their livelihoods, their financial well-being, their mental wellbeing, and their social well-being. So sexual harassment has been a scourge, and it's just been a sort of hidden pandemic, if you like, in our workplaces for a long time. Now, in the business world, I saw corporations change and minimise sexual harassment. But the thing that this legislative change will do, it will be so significant, and it's all going to be rolled out by the end of this year. This legislation was crying out to be made, this positive duty on the employer, because it shifts the burden from a woman having to make a complaint and go through all of that, to the employer to set up structures, which will greatly diminish it happening in the first place. By the time it's fully rolled out, it will be in 2024, because the request and the aim is to have organisations roll it out during 2023, and that will be fully integrated into our law and into our workplaces by 2024. It's been 40 years of advocacy and work to get to that place. So it's a very exciting reform.

RUBY:

It's a long time, isn't it, 40 years?

Julia:

It sure is.

RUBY:

And you know, while these changes they do, obviously sound good. It does kind of strike you that perhaps something like this should have happened before 2023, given what we know about what happens in almost every workplace in Australia, from Parliament House down. I mean, do you have thoughts on why it's taken us so long to get to this point? And, you know, what's unique about the way that we've kind of grappled with gender equity?

Julia:

Well, I certainly think it would have definitely happened earlier had Morrison not been re-elected. So I think like the rest of the world, the circuit breaker was MeToo in relation to this legislation. And I think it's it's very exciting

Archival tape – Kate Jenkins:

“We relied too heavily on the courage of victims to step into the brutal and lonely glare of the spotlight, to enforce the law. We cannot allow that to continue.”

Julia:

I really believe it's a very exciting development. Kudos to the Albanese Government for committing to implementing all 55 recommendations, including this one, which they did at the end of last year.

Archival tape – Anthony Albanese:

“The Jenkins report was an important report. I paid tribute to all those who came forward and gave evidence to that inquiry, and to Kate Jenkins in her report deserves a great deal of credit.”

Julia:

We needed that action at the top for it to be fully implemented across workplaces.

Archival tape – Anthony Albanese:

“That report didn't even receive a response from the former government for more than a year. My government has acted. Today, the parliament has legislated, and I thank them for it.”

Julia:

Sexual harassment is about power, and power disparity, and gender inequality. We needed that legislative framework to make real change happen, and that's what we've got now.

RUBY:

And in terms of cultural change in Australia, do you think that we are beginning to shift? I often find myself a bit divided on that question. When I look at how women, particularly young women, are talking about harassment and abuse, there is hope I think for change. But then when you consider the backlash that often occurs, when they do speak, you become less optimistic. So how much of a danger is that - that with something like this - it will be one step forward two steps backwards?

Julia:

Yeah, well that's a really, really good point because backlash is one of the key things as we know, that you cop when you're trying to make change. Up until now, we've put this burden on women to tell their stories, and or, to keep their secrets. We've put that burden on them and that backlash has been felt by this legislative framework, by the federal government. It does shift the opportunity for backlash, because by putting these requirements on the employer — or on the leaders of organisations — it takes away that burden. And that's what's so good about it.

That's why I'm very hopeful for change, because we know from the MeToo movement, there was a lot more people coming out and talking about it. But equally, there are millions of women who couldn't talk, and those women are no less brave. I'd often see leaders in political parties or whatever saying “Oh, we have zero tolerance and you should call it out” not recognising that actually, that's a pretty big burden to put on women. You might feel self-righteous that you have zero tolerance, but it's up to you as a person in a position of power, to do something that is in a constructive way, going to fix it.

RUBY:

Julia, thank you so much for your time.

Julia:

My pleasure. Thank you. It's been a pleasure speaking with you.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today,

The man accused of killing Cassius Turvey has appeared in court, as the case moves towards a trial for the alleged murder of the 15-year-old Indigenous boy.

The accused, a 21-year-old man, allegedly attacked Turvey with a metal pole as he was walking home from school. Turvey died ten days later in a Perth hospital. Turvey’s death sparked national protests.

The next court appearance is scheduled for March.

And in Victoria, a man is facing court over the alleged double-murder of a pair of campers. The court has heard that the campers, both in their 70s, were said to have been having an affair when they encountered the accused.

The police allege that a fight broke out and the campers were killed.

The Melbourne Magistrates Court is currently deciding whether the police evidence, gathered over more than a year of surveillance, is sufficient to bring the case to trial.

The accused has maintained his innocence.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am, see you tomorrow.

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