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DANIEL:

There’s one question Julia Banks is asked over and over.

JULIA:

I get asked, why did you join the Liberal Party in the first place?

DANIEL:

It’s a question she’s been grappling with again, in light of the party’s devastating election loss and the existential questions it faces about its future.

But looking back, she can see why she was drawn in.

JULIA:

At the time, 10 years ago, I saw good people in the Liberal Party. In Malcolm Turnbull, Julie Bishop, Kelly O'Dwyer. I was aligned to their values, but the true irony of the answer to that question is they were calling for more women at the time. And so I thought, okay, I'll join.

DANIEL:

Julia went on to win the seat of Chisolm in 2016 but just two years later, she wanted out.

Audio excerpt – Julia Banks:

“The Liberal Party has changed, largely due to the actions of the reactionary and regressive right wing who talk about and talk to themselves rather than listening to the people.”

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DANIEL:

Today, the Liberal Party will meet to elect a new leader and whoever wins will need to decide whether to learn from the mistakes of the past and what the future of the party should be.

From Schwartz Media, I’m Daniel James. This is 7am.

Today, former Liberal MP Julia Banks, on what it’s like to be a woman in the Liberal Party and whether the party can change.

It’s Tuesday, May 13.

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DANIEL:

So Julia, I want to talk to you about your decision, 10 years ago now, to leave the corporate world and join the Liberal Party. What was it like stepping into that world?

JULIA:

Oh, it was pretty stunning. I often describe it as like Mad Men meets House of Cards. For example, you know, I was pre-selected in the seat of Chisholm, and I technically lived a couple of kilometres from the nearest boundary to Chisholm. And it was after my pre-selection that a local branch official said, oh, and by the way, you should take out a rental in Chisholm, so you can pretend that you live in Chisholm.
He said, just take out a rental, a one bedroom rental, and your kids can stay overnight a few nights a week, your kids and your husband and all that. And I said to him, like, staggered, I said, I am not going to start my political career on a lie. And he just looked at me and he said, well, you're a useless candidate and you're gonna be a fucking hopeless politician if you can't lie. I just thought, okay, this is the beginning. So yeah, there you go.

DANIEL:

So that's quite a baptism of fire, what other advice were you given when you stepped into the world of politics?

JULIA:

Well, the sexism was extraordinary and the misogyny. You know, I remember once a senior official was going to be speaking at an event and again, the branch official said, so he'll be speaking and he'll be speaking, and he'll be speaking. And it was in my electorate of Chisholm and I had been preselected by that stage, and I said, well what about me? And he said, oh, don't worry darling, we'll give you the raffle. It was… it was right out there. It was amazing.

DANIEL:

I'm trying not to swear.

JULIA:

Believe me, I've done a lot of that.

DANIEL:

So, you entered parliament in 2016 under the leadership of Malcolm Turnbull, who famously loved to say that women hold up half the sky.

Audio excerpt – Unknown:

“Ladies if you want to join up!”

Audio excerpt – Malcolm Turnbull:

“We need more female candidates. We know that women hold up half the sky and we’d like them to hold up a larger part of the parliamentary seats as well.”

DANIEL:

A very Malcolm type of quote. So, did you get a sense at all that things were heading in the right direction while you're in the parliament?

JULIA:

Look, I think under the leadership of Turnbull, it would be naive to say there weren't the rumblings of the right wing, but they got their way in 2018. But then, it's no coincidence that after the leadership coup, I ultimately quit the party, three months later.

Audio excerpt – Speaker:

“The member for Chisholm.”

Audio excerpt – Julia Banks:

“Mr. Speaker, on indulgence, may I make a personal statement?”

Audio excerpt – Speaker:

“Yes, the Member for Chisholm may proceed.”

Audio excerpt – Julia Banks:

“Thank you, Mr. Speaker.”

JULIA:

It was important to me to say on Hansard that my values haven't changed the liberal values have.

Audio excerpt – Julia Banks:

“My sensible centrist values, belief in economic responsibility and focus on always putting the people first and acting in the nation's interest, have not changed.”

JULIA:

And that was when I went to the crossbench.

DANIEL:

Why did you leave the way that you did?

JULIA:

I knew immediately after the leadership coup, like, literally days, that I was not going to continue. And I intended to issue a statement to say I wasn't going to recontest the next election, which in fact I'd prepared, I'd given Morrison notice. They didn't want me to do that. I got phone calls from Morrison, from Frydenberg, from all over, no don't do that, don't do that. They were trying to make me wait and I said no no I am going to do this. And I promised Morrison, like, he was really adamant that I not do it. And then finally he said, well, give me 24 hours and don't speak to the media. And I agreed to both those things, which was a huge mistake, because of course they used that 24 hours to background the media that I'd had some sort of breakdown. And so Morrison's press conference, I had the tele on in the background, right at the end of the presser, a journalist said to him, and what do you think about Julia Banks not re-contesting the next election, and he said, all I care about is Julia's welfare.And I remember being really confused. Really confused. And unfortunately for Morrison, I'm good mates with a couple of journalists and MPs, and that's when I discovered that they'd been backgrounding against me. And I thought, look, I'm just gonna press on. With every speech, there was a systematic takedown to discredit my reputation. So I went from being the weak petal to the bully bitch. That was extraordinary. And that was coupled with also, sort of, what I call patriarchal bribes, like we'll make you a minister or we'll send you to the UN, directly from Morrison, those offers, both of which I rejected.

And, you know, it's no coincidence that Julie Bishop and Kelly O'Dwyer left before the Morrison miracle election.

Audio excerpt – Julie Bishop:

“Mr. Speaker, I will leave this place positive about the future, proud of the service that I have been able to give to my electorate of Curtin, my beloved Liberal Party, the state of Western Australia and my country.”

Audio excerpt – Scott Morrisson:

“Her successor will have big shoes to fill. And we all know Julie has the best shoes in the parliament. And they will indeed take some filling.”

Audio excerpt – Malcolm Turnbull:

“I just want to talk about the fact that she was a trailblazer.”

JULIA:

It's also no coincidence that at that election, Zali Steggall took the seat of Warringah from Tony Abbott.

Audio excerpt – Zali Steggall:

“This is a win for moderates with a heart.”

JULIA:

And it's no coincidence that that was the beginning and the rise of Climate 200, in terms of supporting the independent movement.

DANIEL:

After the break – how should the Liberal Party re-build?

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DANIEL:

Julia, in the Liberal Party’s review after the last election, they identified that they needed to do more to attract women. But in the end a lot of the safe seats went to men. So what does that say to you about whether the party really does want to reform?

JULIA:

Well, I think the trains left the station. They've wanted that since, as I said, before I joined the party, and that's 10 years ago now. You know, Labor have done a stunning job. They've done a much better job in relation to women, namely because they introduced quotas 25 years ago. I made speeches during my time there that they've got to lose the merit myth and introduce quotas, but they have an obstinate sort of rejection of quotas. So who knows what they're going to do, you know. It's just become a tiresome theme. After every election, it's like, oh, well, you know, women don't like us. Oh, young people don't like us either, oh, you know. Gen Z and millennials are the main voters now. Most of them are from migrant heritage or very diverse backgrounds and they just don't appeal to them. And they certainly don't appeal to half the population, which is women. They absolutely don't appeal to women.

DANIEL:

Do you get the sense that they're more open to perhaps having a quota system now, in light of this result?

JULIA:

It's an interesting question because a lot of the women remaining in the Liberal Party, women like Jane Humes and Michaelia Cash, you know, Michaelia “Trump is a man of action” Cash. They're sort of caught in this patriarchal vortex as well. They will mirror the comments that come out, you know, in terms of, oh no, no, we don't need to go to quotas, you know, we'll just stick with our merit theme but we will get to 50 percent. And where have those reviews gone? You know, they've been put on the shelf. I remember there was a review done, again, 10 years ago. Morrison of all people called a review, and no one knows where that one went or the other one, really.

DANIEL:

Well, let’s talk about where we are today. How do you think the Liberal Party should go about rebuilding, if that is possible?

JULIA:

Well, I think the last two elections, 2022 and 2025, the discussion has been about women and how do we rebuild. How do we, you know, what do we do? It has become a hollow statement to say that they are a party of Menzies. Menzies basically talked about, in his famous speech, the forgotten people and that includes salaried professionals, the individual liberty and the right to work. The Liberals have forgotten, not only women, but Gen Z, millennials, young people, diverse populations. They're the new forgotten people. They are not the party of Menzies anymore. I think our focus should be on the community independents movement, particularly in the urban seats, because we saw in 2022 a seismic shift in our political landscape.

Audio excerpt – Reporter:

“The moderate wing of the Liberal Party has been decimated by that teal tidal wave in Sydney and Melbourne seats. At least five Climate 200 backed challengers have turfed out high profile Liberals in electorates once considered in the safest of seats.”

JULIA:

But the downside of that has been, in 2025 they will have less power with Labor's increased majority. So I believe our focus should be more on that community independents movement, and how do we make them more powerful. And the way to do that, I believe, is to create a community independents party. If not for any other reason, that would also give the country representation in the Senate. And if people say, isn't that an oxymoron or a contradiction, if you have a party of independents? No, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to follow this formula, and have a party formula. As long as it follows the three pillars of climate, integrity and women – the three pillars that were first introduced by Climate 200. As long as they're aligned to that, then you can maintain a flexibility.

DANIEL:

So you've been involved with Climate 200, but what would it take for you to want to join the Liberal Party again?

JULIA:
That's a really good question because I hear so many people, like, in the media, in business say, oh, the teal independents or the community independents, particularly in the cities, they're the sort of women that the Liberal Party need. I can tell you, the women they're trying to get, they wouldn't go near the Liberal Party.

DANIEL:

Well, Julia, thank you very much for your time and for your insights.

JULIA:

Thank you so much, Daniel. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks again. Cheers.

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DANIEL:

Also in the news today…

Anthony Albanese has announced his new ministry.

Michelle Rowland will become Australia's new Attorney-General, replacing Mark Dreyfus, who was ousted due to a factional fight.

Tim Ayres has been promoted to Minister for Science, Industry and Innovation, after Ed Husic was also axed.

Mark Butler will keep the health portfolio and pick up the NDIS, and Murray Watt will become the new Minister for Environment and Water.

The ministers will be sworn in at 9am this morning.

And,

Donald Trump is reportedly about to receive a luxury jumbo jet as a gift from the ruling family of Qatar.

The plane - which is so opulent it is known as a “flying palace” - could be used as the US President’s Air Force One.

The Qatari government acknowledged the plan but denied that a final decision had been made.

I’m Daniel James, this is 7am. Thanks for listening.

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