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SCOTT:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Scott Mitchell, filling in for Ruby Jones. This is 7am.

Parliament began this week with bitter arguments over the handling of Brittany Higgins’ rape allegation, with the oppostion using leaked text messages from Higgins’ phone to prosecute their case against the government.

But it took only two days for fresh allegations of another sexual assault to emerge.

Independent Senator, Lidia Thorpe, claims she was sexually harassed and assaulted by Liberal Senator, David Van, something he strongly denies.

This all comes as the former Sex Discrimination Commissioner described the culture in Canberra as having taken a turn for the better.

Today, columnist for, The Saturday Paper, Paul Bongiorno, on the standard being set within Parliament House.

It’s Friday, June 16.

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SCOTT:

Paul, to understand the last day in Parliament – we really have to talk about how the opposition just did not let up this week in using the leaked Brittany Higgins text messages as ammunition. How did that begin to blow back on them?

PAUL:

Well, Scott, I think we need the broader context here, that what we're actually talking about is the way in which the Coalition Morrison Government handled the Brittany Higgins allegations three years ago. And what we're now seeing is another chapter that's got more to do with political payback, than it has to do with showing any understanding of the sensitivities surrounding rape allegations, and the situation that women find themselves in, particularly if they work in Parliament House. So it's against that background that we saw two Liberals speak out this week against the tactics being employed by their own side of politics in Parliament. Bridget Archer said she was concerned the leaks could have a chilling effect on victims coming forward. And her colleague in the Senate, Andrew Bragg, well, he was aghast at the way this latest chapter in the sad and sorry Higgins saga, is being played out publicly and politically.

Archival tape – Andrew Bragg:

“It is hugely regrettable how it played out publicly. I don't know how these messages have been put into the public domain. I expect that there will be a proper investigation into that because, I mean, why would anyone come forward with allegations of assault if this is the result?”

PAUL:

He told RN breakfast, watching it unfold in the Senate is "very ugly, very ugly".

Archival tape – Andrew Bragg:

“So there needs to be an inquiry into how this has happened. I mean, this can't happen again. This is supposed to be a country which values the rule of law and proper process.”

PAUL:

And both Archer and Bragg are demanding an inquiry, a parliamentary inquiry, or a police investigation. And I have to say in that regard, that Network Ten, and its journalist Lisa Wilkinson, have referred the leaking of these confidential texts to the Federal Police for investigation.

SCOTT:

And Paul, what does it say that the rest of the Opposition, Peter Dutton, Michaelia Cash and others who've been pressing this, they don't seem disturbed by the source of this leak against Higgins at all. And in their comments they seem much more concerned with taking maximum political advantage.

PAUL:

Exactly right. I mean, Scott, these texts between David Sharaz and Brittany Higgins were private and they were only presented to the court ahead of the rape trial under subpoena. In other words, Higgins was forced to give her private phone details to the court. These texts weren't actually used as evidence in the trial, and there is a protocol that says that they belong to the court and, of course, to the original owner, and they should not be subsequently disclosed. Well, all of that went by the board this week in the Senate, as we've been seeing. By the way, the leak itself is a breach of court ethics, and in fact, could be a contempt of court which could attract penalties.

But, lead by Peter Dutton and Michaelia Cash, the shadow attorney general who was at one stage an employer, after the allegations were made of Brittany Higgins. The Coalition are now wielding the sexual assault claims as a weapon against Finance Minister, Katy Gallagher, even after Gallagher tried to put the record straight on why she claimed that she had no knowledge of the Brittany Higgins allegations, only to reveal at the weekend that she was forewarned by David Sharaz three or four days before Brittany Higgins went public on Network Ten's The Project. But of course, throughout all of this, Bruce Lehrmann has maintained nothing happened and he's innocent.

There's no doubt back in 2019, on the cusp of the 2019 election, Morrison, Senator Cash, Senator Reynolds, they treated the Higgins allegations as a political problem to be managed rather than a personal issue about the safety of Higgins and other women in the Senate. And we know from a private phone conversation, the transcript of which Brittany Higgins put on Twitter this week, that in a conversation with Cash after the alleged incident, she said she was raising the matter in the hope that other women staffers wouldn't suffer a similar fate to her. And her speaking out two years later was motivated as much by her frustration that the Morrison government did nothing, as anger at the way they treated her.

SCOTT:

And all of this, Paul, must be leading to an extremely tense atmosphere in Parliament. That seemed to culminate on Wednesday evening, when Victorian Liberal, Senator David Van, stood up to add to the Coalition's attacks regarding the text messages. Tell me about what happened.

PAUL:

Well, what happens in the Senate there is ‘question time’ where, you know, the to and fro of that. Then after ‘question time’, they have a quaint custom of taking note of the answers just given. So on Wednesday afternoon after ‘question time’, Liberal Senator David Van rose to his feet to continue the Opposition's attack on the Government.

Archival tape – David Van:

“The behaviour that we saw from the Labor Party coming from these benches in the last year or so, was disgraceful.”

PAUL:

He said, and I'm quoting from the record, “even yesterday and today, the muck that's been thrown from that side”, that's the Labor’s side “to this side”, The Liberal, “at Senators Cash and Linda Reynolds. Well, it's really just not on and it makes a mockery of their words.”

Archival tape – David Van:

“As parliamentarians we need to be focussed on setting the standard for all Australians and in all aspects of life.”

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe (off mic):

“You can talk!”

Archival tape – David Van:

“When then Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins…”

PAUL:

This got a bit too much for the Independent, the now Independent Senator from Victoria, Lidia Thorpe. She began interjecting.

Archival tape – Speaker:

“Senator Thorpe, please, please Senator Thorpe.”

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe (off mic):

“(inaudible)”

Archival tape – Speaker:

“Senator Thorpe, please.”

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe (off mic):

“You know it!”

Archival tape – Speaker:

“Senator Thorpe, I've called you to order, please be at order.”

Archival tape – David Van:

“Could you ask her to withdraw that comment please, it was…”

Archival tape – Speaker:

“I didn't hear the comment. But, Senator Thorpe…please just withdraw.”

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe (off mic):

“Why’d you have to move the office?”

Archival tape – Speaker:

“Senator Thorpe. Senator Thorpe, please withdraw.”

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe (off mic):

“Away from me!”

PAUL:

She said she couldn't sit by while Van spoke on the issue.

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe:

This person…

Archival tape – Speaker:

“Senator Thorpe, I would just warn you at this point…”

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe:

“ …harrassed me, sexually assaulted me, and the Prime Minister had to remove him from his office, and to have him talking about this today is an absolute disgrace, on the whole party!”

Archival tape – Speaker:

“I have to call you to order. I'm going to have to refer that to the president…”

PAUL:

She said "I'm feeling very uncomfortable when a perpetrator is speaking about violence." Well, Van was absolutely shocked at this. He denied what she was alleging against him. He said it was a lie. Of course, he had to withdraw the word lie because it's unparliamentary. He said it was untrue, and he accused Senator Thorpe of using parliamentary privilege in a malicious way against him.

Well, Thorpe, after discussions in the Office of Senate President, Sue Lyons, came back into the Senate and withdrew her comments, she said, “according to the rules of the Senate.” And she said she'd have more to say on Thursday, which she did.

SCOTT:

We'll be back after this.

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Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe:

“Thank you, President, I seek leave to make a personal statement under Standing Order 190.”

SCOTT:

Paul, Senator Thorpe returned to the Senate on Thursday to clarify what she had said on Wednesday night. Tell me about that moment.

PAUL:

Well, it was a moment much anticipated in the Senate. And what became clear is that she wanted to have a say that the withdrawal the night before, was only in accordance with Senate rules. So she came in to show the Senate — and indeed the world — that she wasn't resigning from anything.

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe:

“Yesterday, I made remarks in relation to another senator. I then had to withdraw them because the rules of the Senate do not allow you to speak about someone's character, only about something they have said. So today I will speak about my experience in Parliament.”

PAUL:

She said she had experienced the lack of safety for women in the halls of Parliament firsthand.

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe:

“There are different understandings of what amounts to sexual assault. What I experienced was being followed, aggressively propositioned, and inappropriately touched. I was afraid to walk out of the office door. I would open the door slightly and check the coast was clear before stepping out.”

PAUL:

She said the only way she felt safe to leave her office, when the coast was clear, was when accompanied by others. And this is when Van's office was next to hers.

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe:

“I spoke to senior leaders in the Liberal Party, and was assured the Prime Minister was informed. At the time, I was convinced that the government believed me. Their actions in immediately moving the person's office reassured me that they understood the seriousness of what I experienced.”

PAUL:

Interestingly, this was happening also at about the same time that the Brittany Higgins allegations when she said she didn't go public at the time with her allegations so as not to distract from Brittany Higgins claims.

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe:

“I will not pursue legal action against the Senator. I will not go to the police. This is my choice. But I will continue to speak out against the abuse and harassment that happens in this building.”

PAUL:

Thorpe also said that she wanted to work with other parliamentarians to make a safer workplace for women, and she called for more video surveillance, and more security officers.

Archival tape – Lidia Thorpe:

I am disappointed by the reaction of the Senator instead of stepping up, taking accountability, for the fact that he made me feel unsafe. He denied it. He asked his lawyers to send a letter. The same lawyers who represented Christian Porter. This type of behaviour makes it harder for other women to come forward.

PAUL:

Senator Van went on radio on Thursday morning to continue his denials, although he did admit that he did have to move office, because Senator Thorpe felt uncomfortable with him following her in and out of the Senate.

SCOTT:

And Paul. After this speech by Thorpe, we were waiting to see what the response would be. And suddenly, we got word that Peter Dutton was about to make a statement. What did he have to say and how surprising was it that this announcement was so swift?

Archival tape – Peter Dutton:

A short time ago I advised Senator Van of my decision that he should no longer sit in the Liberal Party party room.

PAUL:

Look, I'd say it certainly isn't surprising. Peter Dutton is aware of one thing, and that is that he needs to make up a lot of ground with women voters. There's been recent polling from Resolve that shows that there has been no improvement in the Liberal Party stand, either at a state level in Victoria, or federally with women voters. This really had turned pear shaped very quickly for the Liberal Party, and it's raising again of the Brittany Higgins matters. Dutton knew that he had to stem this bleeding.

Archival tape – Peter Dutton:

“Since the airing of Senator Thorpe's allegation yesterday. Further allegations in relation to Senator Van have been brought to my attention overnight, and this morning.”

PAUL:

Interestingly, he revealed that he called Senator Van in, but he'd heard other allegations against Van’s behaviour. Now Sky News on Thursday revealed that Peter Dutton rang a former Liberal senator and she confirmed to him that three years ago Senator David Van groped her at a function in Parliament House. Well, Peter Dutton said he'd made the decision to expel Van from the Liberal Party room in Canberra, although he's still a member of the Victorian Liberal Party, though his preselection has been under a cloud for some time and one would suspect that this would be the final nail in the coffin from that point of view.

Archival tape – Peter Dutton:

“At the outset I want to make clear, very clear, that I’m not making any judgement on the veracity of allegations, or any individual’s guilt or innocence. I’ll make that very clear…”

SCOTT:

And it's interesting, Paul, to think back to how David Van actually began his speech on Wednesday night before this entire situation exploded really. I mean, he was a member of the Liberal Party room talking about setting the standard in Parliament. And when you look back at this week how the Higgins texts were used politically, these new allegations about behaviour in the building. What does it all say to you about that standard of behaviour in our Parliament?

PAUL:

Well, we thought things were going pretty well until this week, in fact Kate Jenkins, the Sex Discrimination Commissioner, said she was happy that standards were raised and that there were now put in place procedures for people like Lidia Thorpe and others, to complain and for members of Parliament and senators to adhere to a code of conduct. That's all being blown right out of the water, particularly with Lidia Thorpe's intervention. But also with the decision of the Liberal opposition, particularly in the Senate, but within the Parliament generally to rake over the coals of the Brittany Higgins allegations.

And Scott, when you think about it, Peter Dutton acted as quickly as he did, because he realises how low the standing of the Liberal Party is with women voters. You'd have to say after this week they've done nothing to repair their standing with these voters. If anything, they've done a lot more to damage it further.

SCOTT:

Paul, thank you so much for your time.

PAUL:

Thank you, Scott. Bye.

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SCOTT:

Also in the news today…

Greens Senator Barbara Pocock said she will move to amend legislation, to mean that PwC can be suspended as a tax agent for two years, by deregistering them.

She said the firm knowingly obstructed the proper administration of the taxation laws, and that there had to be serious consequences for the conduct of the firm.

And…

Up to 120 jobs will potentially be slashed at the ABC. Staff at the national broadcaster were informed of the job cuts by email yesterday.

They were told, quote: “traditional radio and television broadcasting remains important to us; but we must adapt for the current media environment.”

7am is a daily show from The Monthly and The Saturday Paper.

It’s produced by Kara Jensen-Mackinnon, Zoltan Fecso, Cheyne Anderson, Yeo Choong, and Chris Dengate.

Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow. Our editor is me, Scott Mitchell.

Sarah McVeigh is our head of audio. Erik Jensen is our editor-in-chief. And Ruby Jones is our host.

Mixing by Andy Elston, Travis Evans, and Atticus Bastow.

Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio.

I’m Scott Mitchell, I’ll see you next week.

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