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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.

Tension in the Greens over the Voice to Parliament has culminated this week in the abrupt defection of high-profile Senator Lidia Thorpe.

Publicly, Greens Leader Adam Bandt is calling her resignation ‘sad’. Privately, other Greens members are reportedly calling it a catastrophe.

As for Lidia Thorpe, the newly-Independent Senator says her focus now will be on representing a grassroots Blak sovereign movement - and she hasn’t said whether or not that means supporting a Voice to Parliament.

Today - Chief Political Correspondent at The Saturday Paper Karen Middleton on what happened in the days leading up to the resignation, and what it means for the government - and the Greens.

It’s Thursday, February 9.

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RUBY:

Karen, Senator Lidia Thorpe has just resigned from the Greens, meaning that from now on she'll sit as an independent in the Senate. But before we get into the events that led up to that moment, and unravel exactly what happened in the Greens - I’d like to go back. So how did Lidia Thorpe win her place as a Greens senator representing Victoria? And how did her political career really begin?

KAREN:

So Lidia Thorpe's 49, She turns 50 this year and she grew up in Housing Commission flats in the suburb of Collingwood in Melbourne. She went to school in the inner suburbs and then I think left school at around about 14. And her first job was working with one of her relatives at the Koori Information Centre in Fitzroy and she's described that as being the place where she forged her political views, that it was a sort of a hive of activity of black politics. And she said from that point she worked as a political activist and became passionate about fighting for the rights of her people.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“I stand before you today on the shoulders of my ancestors who fought and died for our country. Their resistance, their knowledge and strength over thousands of years has guided me to this moment. And I carry their spirit with me in this chamber.”

KAREN:

She's been a strong member of the Blak Sovereignty movement. She’s spoken out against what she says are colonial institutions.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“People like me were not meant to end up in places like this. Our voices were silenced, sidelined and written out of the story of our own country. But I never gave up believing that better days were possible.”

KAREN:

When she took her oath. Last year, she raised her fist in a black power salute.

Archival tape -- House speaker:

“Please recite the affirmation on the card handed to you.”

KAREN:

And she added a word to the oath that she took.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“I sovereign Lidia Thorpe, do solemnly and sincerely affirm that I will be faithful and I bear true allegiance to the colonising Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.”

KAREN:

And that got her into trouble because under the rules of the Parliament, you can't change the wording of the oath or you invalidate it. So she then had to take the oath again. So there've been some controversies around that. She hasn't been a quiet member of the Parliament. She's been a very strong advocate and spoken her mind on a range of issues.

RUBY:

And she was obviously seen as an important voice for the party, a strong voice on many issues. But there were also clearly early signs of tensions. So, I mean, at what point did you first get the sense that perhaps she was on a different page to some of the other members of the federal party when it came to policy issues?

KAREN:

Well, before she was even selected, really, because within the Victorian Greens there was a division of opinion on whether or not Lidia Thorpe should be given that Senate seat in the first place because she was an outspoken and firebrand person and because she hadn't served as long in the Greens as some others. And just like any other political party, there's a bit of a hierarchy. There's the understanding that you join the party, you do your time, and then you might have the opportunity for preselection. And so she sort of jumped the queue. And that always angers people in the grassroots movement of a political party. So she was controversial from the moment she came in and she's continued to be that in the way she has tackled issues publicly.

She had a relationship with a bikie figure that hadn't been disclosed and that was a problem for the Greens. It attracted a lot of negative publicity. That relationship was alleged to have occurred in 2021 and involved Rebels outlaw bikie gang leader Dean Martin and now she had also served on a parliamentary committee that dealt with law enforcement and that deals with issues like outlaw bikie gangs. So there was seen to have been a conflict of interest that hadn't been disclosed there. The upshot of that tension was she had to resign from the Greens deputy leadership, which she had been elected to after the May 2022 election. So there was a penalty paid for her failure to disclose that and she acknowledged that she should have disclosed it differently.

RUBY:

Ok so she resigned as deputy Greens leader as a result of that controversy – but I think the major policy issue has really been the voice to parliament hasn’t it - that’s where Thorpe’s views have diverged from the rest of the party. So can you talk me through the ways in which the Greens have attempted to navigate that tension, and come to a position on the Voice, with Thorpe as their Indigenous Affairs spokesperson?

KAREN:

Yes. Well, the Greens were very proud of having an Indigenous woman in the Senate and they appointed Lidia Thorpe as their Indigenous affairs spokesperson, which is understandable given that at that time she was their only Indigenous member. And then as the voice became more part of public debate, it became clear that her position was perhaps more strident about having to have a treaty before the Voice than some of her colleagues. Her Greens colleagues agreed that there should be advocacy for a treaty before a voice, and these are elements of what was put forward in the Uluru Statement from the Heart back in 2017. But there was a particular order to things voice, treaty and then truth telling, and she wanted things in a different order and she was speaking out increasingly strongly about that. Now, former leader Adam Bandt has said she was being allowed to speak her own mind and that they’d tried to find a compromise position that would keep her in the Greens. He said he had suggested to her that she could continue to hold that portfolio, that in fact she could speak out on the Voice and sort of almost hive that part of the portfolio off so she could speak her own mind. That may not necessarily be the rest of the party's position on The Voice, but still represent Indigenous affairs for the party on other aspects of that portfolio. From the outside, that seemed like a pretty cumbersome and maybe even potentially unworkable arrangement.

Archival tape -- Sarah Hanson Young:

“Lidia Thorpe has been up front with our party room… she has explained her position… Lidia’s put forward her position, we as a party room are yet to discuss and formalise our position in relation to the legislation that would establish a referendum but we all come to it from a position of supporting the Uluru statement and wanting to see that implemented in full.”

KAREN:

And the voice issue has come to the crunch now because it's become much more prominent in public debate. We're now into the year where the referendum on the voice will be held. We've seen, particularly in the last month through Australia Day, which many advocates of for Indigenous people call invasion day or Survival Day. The voice issue came up there.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“I sit in the parliament and every day they say that they are sovereign, the colonial system and the colonisers say they are sovereign.”

KAREN:

Some of those who are concerned about the voice in the absence of a treaty were prominent, including her.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“And we deserve better than an advisory body…”

KAREN:

And so this issue’s been debated much, much more in a much more focussed way in the last few weeks. And this has all come to a head. Parliament was resuming this week. The Greens didn't have a formal position and wanted to fix one, but it was something that was unresolved and was going to become a greater political focus.

RUBY:

And so what do we know about how exactly the relationship broke down in the last couple of days? Because I understand the Greens, they went to a retreat last week. Lidia Thorpe, I think, was supposed to go but didn't go. And then it was a couple of days later that she made her announcement. So do we know anything about what exactly triggered the split now?

KAREN:

Yeah, so they had this retreat to try and resolve this. And the upshot of it was her resignation from the party. We don't know everything that went on there, but clearly they just couldn't reach an agreement.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“I've told Greens Adam Bandt and the Senate President that I am resigning from the Greens to sit on the Senate crossbench.”

KAREN:

And she subsequently decided this week that she would step away from the party altogether, retain her Senate seat and be able to speak her own mind. And she has said that she intends to be an advocate for the Blak Sovereignty Movement.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“This country has a strong grass roots Blak Sovereign Movement full of staunch and committed warriors.”

KAREN:

And she's an attractive figure to a lot of people who are inclined to her point of view.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“And I want to represent that movement fully in this parliament.”

KAREN:

So she sees herself as having a platform on her own, and that's the platform she says she intends to use now.

RUBY:

We’ll be back in a moment.

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RUBY:

Karen, on Monday, Lidia Thorpe called a press conference where she announced that she was resigning from the Greens. In that press conference she said she was going to focus on the Blak Sovereignty Movement. What did she say about what that meant - in terms of the policies that she’s going to back as an Independent, and how she might now wield her vote in the senate?

KAREN:

She made a short statement and she wouldn't take questions, but she said that she intended to be an advocate for the Blak Sovereignty Movement. That that was her driving motivation and that she was no longer able to do that from within the Greens.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“Now, I will be able to speak freely on all issues from a sovereign perspective without being constrained by portfolios and agreed party positions.”

KAREN:

She did also say that she would still support the Greens on climate change, that she would vote with the Greens on that issue.

Archival tape -- Lidia Thorpe:

“I will continue to vote with the Greens on climate, but I do not intend to comment further about my time in the Greens.”

KAREN:

She hasn't committed to doing that on other issues. So it's interesting that she singled that issue out. Whether that was part of some formal deal with the Greens, we don't know yet. But that's the suggestion that there is an arrangement to at least do that. Why she didn't want to commit further isn't clear and people tried to ask her that and she hasn't hasn't answered that.

RUBY:

And as you say, we don't know yet whether or not Lidia Thorpe will support a voice to Parliament. The Greens, though, without her are supporting a voice, we don't yet know what the Opposition is going to do. So where does this leave the Government's plans for a referendum?

KAREN:

Well, it's an interesting situation. It's possibly better for the Voice Yes Campaign that they don't have differing views within the Greens, that now the Greens have immediately come out within 24 hours or less of Lidia Thorpe's resignation to confirm that they will endorse the campaign for Yes. So for the campaign, for a voice, that's probably a positive thing for the Greens. It's very difficult. Obviously, they've lost a Senate seat and they've lost a colleague. For Adam Bandt, it's difficult, no doubt puts some pressure on his leadership because he wasn't able to hold the party together and he'll be answerable to the wider Greens Party and Greens voters for that. And it makes it difficult for the Government too in every other respect, in terms of other legislation and issues that it wants to legislate. Because while the Greens had 12 members in the Senate, it needed to get all the Greens and then one other vote to get legislation through in the Senate and it frequently relied on Senator David Pocock, the Independent from the ACT. But there are also others in the Parliament who are often inclined to the Government's position, like Tasmanian independent Jacqui Lambie and her Tasmanian independent colleague Tammi Terrell. So previously it was the Greens plus one, and now for the Government it'll be the Greens plus two. So they can't just fall back on the Greens vote. They were going to have to get not only one other member on the crossbench but two. And so that just makes their negotiations on every other piece of legislation a lot more complicated.

RUBY:

So this does make things more difficult for the Albanese government and it also dilutes the Greens power in the Senate - this was a very valuable senate seat for them. And so it's not hard to see how questions now might be asked of Adam Bandt, and his leadership. He’s gone from taking the Greens to their most successful election result ever to now losing one of their most high profile politicians. So what are the repercussions likely to be for Bandt?

KAREN:

Well, I don't think we know yet what the implications are going to be. And to be fair to Adam Bandt, there's a while until a federal election, so he's got time to recover from that. But it's not a good look when you lose a member of your party and when you're a small party, as you say, that's just had such success, it's particularly unfortunate to have this happen so soon afterwards, relatively speaking, less than a year after the election. But the Greens are still a powerful force in the Parliament. He's got opportunity to recover from that. There's nobody suggesting not publicly anyway, that his leadership is under any threat.. So it really depends how he how responds and recovers from here, how the Greens manage their position in the Senate, how they manage their advocacy for the voice moving forward and and how they use the power that they have now both in the House of Reps with the couple of extra reps seats that they managed to win in Queensland and those 11 senators in the upper chamber.

RUBY:

But do you think that there will be questions asked about that process that led up to Lidia Thorpe's spot in the Senate and how the situation, I suppose, has been managed up until this point?

KAREN:

I think there are certainly questions being asked within the wider Greens movement, certainly, and particularly in Victoria. Where she was a controversial choice anyway. There'll be people wanting answers from the Greens leadership on how it came to this and whether bad decisions were made initially or whether the right decisions were made. Things weren't managed well or whether it was just an inevitable parting of the ways because of the nature of the issue that this is in relation to the voice and having an Indigenous member. There is obviously another Indigenous member in the Greens Dorinda Cox from Western Australia. She is an advocate for the Voice. She's expressed her own concerns and also her advocacy for a treaty. She has decided, along with the rest of the Greens, that she will support the Voice. So she has a different view than Lidia Thorpe. She may well end up as Indigenous affairs spokeswoman for the Greens now she's the only other Indigenous member and that seems a likely choice. Adam Bandt will have that resolved by week's end.
But I have no doubt that there will be people in the wider Greens movement seeking more answers and more debate inside the party than they’ve received to date from these public statements that we're not going to talk about it.

RUBY:

Karen, thank you so much for your time.

KAREN:

Thanks, Ruby.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today...

380,000 people are displaced and seeking refuge in Turkiye, as the fallout from major earthquakes in the region continues.

Four Australians have been reported missing, and rescue efforts continue – even within rebel-controlled areas of Northern Syria, where volunteers continue to work without basic provisions and equipment.

Rescue teams from around the world, including the US and China are already arriving to assist with the search.

And Bruce Lehrmann has named journalists, Lisa Wilkinson and Samantha Maiden, in defamation lawsuits filed on Tuesday over their reporting of Brittany Higgins’ allegations of rape.

The lawsuit names stories filed for Network Ten and News Life Media in 2021, which the lawsuit claims sought to exploit the allegations for personal gain.

Brittany Higgins has indicated she is willing to testify in the proceedings. Lehrmann strenuously maintains his innocence.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am. See you tomorrow.

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