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DANIEL:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Daniel James, this is 7am.

As much as they would hate to admit it, both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris fit the definition of “coastal elite”.

A wealthy New York businessman and reality TV star, and a San Francisco liberal with a career in public office.

That is why each of them are hoping their Vice Presidential candidates and running mates will speak to a specific group of voters, the blue collar, working class area of the midwest.

And yesterday’s debate showed that both JD Vance and Tim Walz are taking the opportunity seriously. Both delivering smooth and assured performances. It’s a stark contrast to the recently established norms of US politics.

Today, ABC Journalist and host of the Global Roaming podcast Geraldine Doogue, on how the two candidates are using their roots to appeal to voters in very different ways.

It’s Thursday, October 3.

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Audio Excerpt - Vice Presidential debate host:

“We have a consequential night ahead and our focus is the issues that matter to you, the voter. Let’s introduce the candidates…”

DANIEL:

Geraldine Doogue, thanks for joining us on 7am.

GERALDINE:

It's a great pleasure, Daniel.

DANIEL:

So you've just finished watching the vice presidential debate. What did you think?

GERALDINE:

I thought that it was enjoyable. I thought it was a view of the United States that we haven't seen for a while. Like it was genuinely an interesting interplay between ideas, policies.

You'd sort of sat back and thought, oh my God, the place is in actually slightly better shape than I thought. And look, ultimately, I thought both men actually performed extremely well.

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“Let me answer that question. First of all, Thanks Governor. Thanks to CBS for hosting the debate and thanks, most importantly, to the American people who are watching this evening and caring enough about this country to pay attention to this vice presidential debate.”

GERALDINE:

And Vance, who's very poised and polished and sort of slick, I just didn't think he made great progress. But I thought over time Walz's sheer experience, combined with his passion, was borne out.

Audio Excerpt - Tim Walz:

“But what's fundamental here is that steady leadership is going to matter. It’s clear in the world…”

GERALDINE:

Waltz did look tentative at the start, and it was sort of startling in a way. Around about halfway through I thought, my god, this man is really getting into his stride.

Audio Excerpt - Tim Walz:

“And I ask you out there teachers, nurses, truck drivers, or whatever, how is it fair that you're paying your taxes every year and Donald Trump hasn't paid any federal tax in the last 10-15 years? In the last year as president? That's what's wrong with the system.”

DANIEL:

Interestingly, this debate started on the topic of the Middle East.

Audio Excerpt - Vice Presidential debate host:

“Earlier today Iran launched its largest attack yet on Israel, but that attack failed thanks to joint US and Israeli defensive action.”

DANIEL:

What did we learn from the candidates on that front?

GERALDINE:

Not a great deal, in my opinion. I mean, that was the only foreign policy discussion. I thought we might get a little more but I didn't really expect it, but they couldn't avoid it.

Audio Excerpt - Tim Walz:

“His Chief of Staff, John Kelly, said that he was the most flawed human being he'd ever met, and both of his Secretaries of Defence and his National Security Advisers said he should be nowhere near the White House.”

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“But effective, smart diplomacy and peace through strength is how you bring stability back to a very broken world. Donald Trump has already done it once before, ask yourself.”

GERALDINE:

Peace through strength is what brings peace to a troubled world. That was a good line from Vance. That might work with quite a lot of the Americans who are listening to him. I just felt that you got the sense that this was not going to determine the American election and they moved on.

DANIEL:

The climate crisis came up as well in the context of the hurricanes hitting the southeastern states in the US. What did they have to say about climate change?

GERALDINE:

Well, that was very interesting because they both they both had to quite clearly own that and emote to the people what they were going through.

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“So first of all, let's start with the hurricane because it's an unbelievable, unspeakable human tragedy. I just saw today, actually, a photograph of two grandparents on a roof with a six year old child, and it was the last photograph ever taken of them because the roof collapsed and those innocent people lost their lives.”

GERALDINE:

Vance, you know, very much talked about the importance of reshoring manufacturing, putting American citizens first.

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“The answer is that you'd want to reshore as much American manufacturing as possible, and you'd want to produce as much energy as possible in the United States of America because we're the cleanest economy in the entire world. What have Kamala Harris policies actually led to? More energy production in China, more manufacturing overseas, more doing business in some of the dirtiest parts of the entire world. And when I say that I mean…”

GERALDINE:

Whereas Waltz very much talked about the huge Inflation Reduction Act, and he, his detailed list of all the production induced by the Act and the 250,000 jobs.

Audio Excerpt - Tim Walz:

“The Inflation Reduction Act has created jobs all across the country. 2000 in Jeffersonville, Ohio taking the EV technology that we invented and making it here, 200,000 jobs across the country, the largest solar manufacturing plant in North America sits in Minnesota.”

GERALDINE:

And, of course, he also talked about Trump mentioning that climate change was a hoax.

Audio Excerpt - Tim Walz:

“But my farmers know climate change is real. They've seen 500 year droughts, 500 year floods back to back.”

GERALDINE:

I suppose I did think that that emphasis on middle America being offshored was possibly quite a good point by Vance. And, and Walz, all that talk about the farmers, again he could make it very personal when he chose to Walz which Vance, the only personal thing Vance talked about was his daughters, his three daughters and his, sort of, his mother. And I felt that he overdid that but maybe that works very much with the base in America.

DANIEL:

On the issue of border security, Tim Walz accused Trump and Vance of wanting to politicise border security so it remained an election issue. This came up during the presidential debate as well. How did JD Vance respond to that accusation?

GERALDINE:

This and the discussion about democracy were the high points of the debate.

DANIEL:

It got quite heated, didn’t it?

GERALDINE:

Very.

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“Margaret.”

Audio Excerpt - Vice Presidential debate host:

“Thank you, Senator. We have so much to get to.”

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“Margaret, I think it's important to get to.”

Audio Excerpt - Vice Presidential debate host:

“To turn now to the economy, thank you.”

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“Margaret, the rules were that you got to fact check…”

GERALDINE:

Vance just kept going on about a really dark version, I suppose, of the border problem. That law enforcement needed to be able to do their job. That the aliens coming in, the numbers who were criminals.

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“We have 320,000 children that the Department of Homeland Security has effectively lost. Some of them have been sex trafficked. Some of them hopefully are at homes with their families. Some of them have been used as drug trafficking mules. The real family separation policy in this country is, unfortunately, Kamala Harris's wide open southern border.”

GERALDINE:

And Walz appealed, saying basically the minute you start to talk about this in any sort of decent way, in comes Trump and demonises at all. And of course, the Springfield became an example of it.

Audio Excerpt - Tim Walz:

“I believe Senator Vance wants to solve this. But by standing with Donald Trump and not working together to find a solution, it becomes a talking point. And when it becomes a talking point like this, we dehumanise and villainise other human beings.”

GERALDINE:

I thought, if you lived around the border in any shape or form, I thought that Vance probably did do not a bad job there.

DANIEL:

Reproductive rights inevitably came up. This has been a strong area for Tim Walz in which he's spoken about his own personal struggle having children with his wife. At the presidential debate, Donald Trump struggled to articulate his position on abortion and whether he supports a national abortion ban. Did JD Vance face a similar problem during this debate?

GERALDINE:

Yes, I thought he absolutely did. I thought he completely dodged that.

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“Well Nora, first of all I never supported a national ban. I did during, when I was running for Senate in 2022, talk about setting some minimum national standard, for example…”

GERALDINE:

I thought that Walz most definitely won that.

Audio Excerpt - Tim Walz:

“I'm going to respond on the pro-abortion piece of that. No, we're not. We're pro-women. We're pro freedom to make your own choice. We know what the implications are to not be that. Women having miscarriages. Women not getting the care. Physicians feeling like they may be prosecuted for providing that care.”

GERALDINE:

I thought Vance was not at all persuasive that he had changed his mind, throwing it back to the individual states. I mean, he maybe, he really does believe what he believes. He can usually cast aside quite a few things, but he didn't on that score.

DANIEL:

And towards the end of the debate, the moderators asked about the state of democracy itself in America.

Audio Excerpt - Vice Presidential debate host:

“Would you again seek to challenge this year's election results? Even if every governor certifies the results. I'll give you two minutes.”

DANIEL:

How did JD Vance answer the question about whether he and Trump would accept the result of the upcoming election?

GERALDINE:

Well, he dodged it.

DANIEL:

Yeah.

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“Well Nora, first of all, I think that we're focused on the future. We need to figure out how to solve the inflation crisis caused by Kamala Harris's policies, make housing affordable and make groceries affordable. And that's what we're focused on.”

GERALDINE:

And he did say that we want issues debated peacefully in the public square, but I believe we do have a threat. And then went into that whole thing about the censorship.

Audio Excerpt - JD Vance:

“I believe that we actually do have a threat to democracy in this country. But unfortunately, it's not the threat to democracy that Kamala Harris and Tim Walz want to talk about. It is the threat of censorship. It's Americans casting aside lifelong friendships because of disagreements over politics. It’s big technology…”

GERALDINE:

By this stage, Walz was really gearing up and that this type of debate is tearing our country apart and when this is over we've got to be able to shake hands and move on and get away from this type of debate.

Audio Excerpt - Tim Walz:

“I work with kids long enough to know, and I said as a football coach sometimes you really want to win, but the democracy is bigger than winning an election. You shake hands and then you try and do everything you can to help the other side win.”

GERALDINE:

But I did think that idea that they would have to shake hands if it was all over and move on, I think a lot of Americans probably do want to move on.

DANIEL:

Yeah.

GERALDINE:

But, it just depends how dark they feel things are I suppose.

DANIEL:

JD Vance was questioned about his previous criticisms of Trump as well, and essentially whether changing his opinion on Trump shows that he won't be someone to stand up to the president if need be. Do you think there's a perception problem for Vance on, not only his previous comments about Donald Trump, but on his current relationship with Donald Trump moving forward?

GERALDINE:

I think it's pretty obvious he flip flops around. He is, he's opportunistic. He moves around. I don't like people like that. You know, I don't trust them.

But I'm not sure that that's actually how Americans over there necessarily see him because he was very poised. My goodness, he's a good debater. What struck me was the degree to which he felt he had to personalise himself. This constant reference, I thought more or less constant references, to sort of sitting back at home and sitting with his grandmother or whatever it was or his three beautiful children.

DANIEL:

After the break, how much of a role do JD Vance and Tim Walz actually have in swaying the election?

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DANIEL:

Geraldine, we've been speaking about the debate between JD Vance and Tim Walz.

Both Vance and Walz spent a lot of time talking about their backgrounds growing up in the rural Midwest of America. They focussed on seeing a lot of manufacturing jobs leaving America, for instance. Who do you think they're speaking to when they make that a focus of their pitches to voters?

GERALDINE:

That's a good question. I mean, they clearly have been focusing on the people who are, allegedly 200,000 could swing the election, who are unsure. And in fact, they're pitching at the undecideds, but my view is that they also reinforce a whole lot of other people who actually want the place to get back to normal. Now, I think that's a bigger drive than we've come to believe because all our focus has been on Trump. And I think there probably is a much bigger drive, you know, for among a lot of people to just, you know, can we please get back to normal?

And as we have been focusing here in Australia on abortion issues, you know, how many of the women will they get in? And I think this is very true, but there's an increasing writing too about whether disenchanted younger men feel that Trump is a very good model of a man who's made it. And there's quite a lot of concern, as I understand, in the Democrat ranks about just this.

Walz has also a very confident maleness about him. Football coach, teacher, father, all that. He talked about only having one house, which was interesting. You know, the whole discussion about housing. Vance clearly is a man making money more.

DANIEL:

Seems to me, Geraldine, that both candidates, Walz and Vance, are in an existential battle as much as anything over the definition and role modelling of what is a good version of masculinity and manhood.

GERALDINE:

Well, there are very good pollsters who believe it's playing quite a considerable role in this. I mean, I did think that Walz did display a sort of positive view. Is it that dad energy that people have been talking about or, you know, the sort of woolly Labrador politics, you know, of America? I thought it was very believable.

Vance models a very different part of America, it’s American entrepreneurialism, I suppose. I mean, that is who backs him. You know, Silicon Valley entrepreneurs have backed him. But a lot of young men are wondering about precisely that. Wondering when they'll ever be able to afford their own home and a wife.

DANIEL:

I think it's telling that if you look online that while Vance has been spending a lot of time speaking to, what you could loosely describe as the bro media, podcasts hosted by young men, I guess podcasting to young men. So, who is he trying to appeal to when he goes on these shows?

GERALDINE:

Well, I mean this, this is the argument that you're dealing with people who are not sure of themselves or what they really believe. They've certainly not established voters. You know, a lot of these young men who'll be looking on, they're not well formed. They're, they're seen their communities just crack up around them.

They're, they're given constant material saying reach for the stars, go for broke. You know, don't be a loser. That's what Trump says. Don't be a loser. That's certainly not what Walz says.

DANIEL:

Outside of the bro vote and outside of the Midwest area often called the heartland of America, these are the states that we've been hearing a lot about in terms of being critical to the outcome of the next election. Since Kamala Harris has come on board as the presidential nominee for the Democrats, have there been any other states that have come into play for this election?

GERALDINE:

Look, as I understand it, North Carolina and Arizona. And, as I understand it, there's furious amounts of effort going into Pennsylvania quietly. Nevada seems to be really occupying people's thoughts quite a lot as well.

I do think that it's neck and neck. Because it is so even and it is all happening so late, we're seeing a different layer of coverage to anything I've seen in any US election before. That's why I actually think this debate will turn out to be more important than we thought.

DANIEL:

Well, that's an interesting point to finish on Geraldine. Particularly vice presidential debates are seen as no more than political theatre and, historically, they’ve hardly moved the needle. Do you think that this debate will be more consequential than previous vice presidential debates and in particular in relation to what we all see happening in November with the outcome of this election?

GERALDINE:

Yes, I do think it’ll be more consequential. You know, if Biden had stepped down in June or something and she'd come in, would it have been? Maybe not. This is like concertinaed for the Americans and I think that it will have quite a decent rating.

I honestly felt you looked at a competent America there. That would surely be good for American morale that is pretty battered at the moment. Even if you feel like you're doing it really tough and you're angry with a lot of them that are sitting there in Washington, it was actually a pretty good display of American skills. I suspect it will make a difference.

DANIEL:

Geraldine, thank you so much for your time.

GERALDINE:

My pleasure, Daniel. Thank you.

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DANIEL:

Also in the news today,

Conflict in the Middle East has escalated to new levels after Iran launched around 200 missiles at Israel on Tuesday night, local time.

The attack was in response to the killings of senior leaders of Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran’s Revolutionary Guard.

In a statement following the attack, Israel’s prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said “Iran had made a big mistake tonight and will pay for it. Whoever attacks us, we attack them.” He said.

And, New South Wales Police are trying to ban two pro-Palestinian rallies planned for the upcoming Labour Day long weekend in Sydney.

In a statement, the NSW police force have said they are not satisfied the protests would proceed safely.

Monday will mark the one-year anniversary to the October 7 attacks on Israel by Hamas militants.

Im Daniel James, 7am will be back tomorrow.

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