ZAKI:

There’s a lot that I can reflect now, a lot of damage that has been done to myself and to other people.

We need some time to reflect and heal and then to sort of assess what is it that I have lost, and how damaged I am.

Mentally I'm a broken person. No one could tell that from my face because I always smile and I feel like people don't need to see my other side.

But internally and mentally, I'm a broken person.

And it is done by the system and in immigration.

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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am.

Zaki Haidari is one of 19,000 people who Australia has kept in limbo, but will now get the certainty of a permanent place here, temporary protection visas allowed people who arrived by boat to stay in Australia, but denied them the rights of other visa holders. And hanging over them was the threat that they could be sent back to where they came from.
The Labor party promised to put an end to the visas, and now, nine months after the election they’ve delivered.

Today, former refugee and advocate Zaki Haidari, on his journey to Australia, life as a temporarily protected person, and those who are still left out.

It’s Monday, February 27.

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RUBY:

Hi Zaki, I'm Ruby. How's it going?

ZAKI:

Hi, Ruby. Good. Nice to meet you.

RUBY:

You as well. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

ZAKI:

Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's an important occasion. A happy occasion.

RUBY:

Yeah, I imagine it's been a pretty big few days for you.

ZAKI:

Yeah, it has been since the announcement. It's really hard to accept that, you know, the cruelty is over for some people because we've been fighting for so long.

RUBY:

Well, let’s start by talking about that announcement, Zaki.

Archival tape – Andrew Giles:

“Thank you. Today we delivered on our commitment to provide permanent protection to those who are on temporary protection visas and Safe Haven Enterprise visas. Exactly as we said we would.”

RUBY:

So two weeks ago the government announced that they will make good on their election promise, and the visa category that you've been under for years — along with many other people, so temporary protection visas, or also called TPVs, — they would be scrapped.

Archival tape – Andrew Giles:

“The lives of 19,000 people already living in our community will change for the better. These people deserve the opportunity to participate in all aspects of Australian life and the Australian economy. And now they will.”

RUBY:

Can you tell me what it was like to hear that news?

ZAKI:

Yeah. Look, I got the news at 10:30 Sunday night. A friend of mine sent it through, and I was just looking at it, and I was just like, reading it over and over because the news was so unreal for me. We have been living in temporary and cruelty for the past ten years, and then I had to text her to check if this is correct, what I'm reading. And that was correct! And, you know, that was the moment that I was in tears. And I really felt that, you know, it's a moment that I've been waiting for the past 10 years.

RUBY:

Can you take me back to 10 years ago? You arrived here, can you tell me a bit about that journey?

ZAKI:

I arrived in Australia in November 2012. From Afghanistan. I'm a Hazara refugee, Hazara ethnic minority that is being persecuted by the Taliban and like minded regimes. And that was one of the reasons that I had to leave Afghanistan when I was 17. I sort of took a long journey to seek asylum. I was smuggled to India, Malaysia, and Indonesia, and then on a boat to Christmas Island, which… the boat was broken and we got rescued by the Australian Navy.

They took us to Christmas Island.

Archival tape – Reporter 1:

“The latest asylum seekers rescued by the Australian Navy have arrived at Christmas Island. The boat carrying 162 people sent out a distress call yesterday… “

ZAKI:

So the first message that we got from the Australian immigration at the time was that we can never call Australia home. Then we were detained for about three months in different detention centres. The capacity in Nauru, in PNG, were full. They couldn't send us to those offshore detention centres.

Archival tape – Reporter 2:

“It’s Australia’s growing immigration dilemma, a detention centre full to overflowing…”

ZAKI:

Then they released us in the community on bridging visas with a warning saying that they are working to build capacity in those offshore detention centres and they'll send us back when they have more room available.

Archival tape – Reporter 3:

“More people who arrive by boat will be placed on bridging visas, allowing them to live in the community while their claims are processed.”

ZAKI:

So in those three years we weren't allowed to seek protection from the Australian Government, and then after that we were allowed to lodge an application in a very small amount of time. Even the idea of temporary protection did not make any sense to me. However, we had no other choice to make. We put in an application, got my protection visa, and I got my refugee status and then I was granted a SHEV visa, which is a temporary protection visa for five years.

RUBY:

And so what did it mean to be living on a temporary protection visa? In practical terms, What has life been like for you?

ZAKI:

Yeah, Being on a temporary visa everything was…it's hard to explain it in words, but everything was temporary.

When I was getting up every day, there was thoughts in my mind that after this visa, I might get deported back to Afghanistan. I might not get another visa to stay here.

I could not build a life that I wished for. I could not have dreams. You know I was 17 when I came here, and I'm 28 now. This is a very crucial time for every human being to grow, learn, and set their future and goals in life. And I feel that's been taken away from me and from other 30,000 refugees.

I felt that I was in a cage, a bigger cage. I could see other people, I could interact with them, but also I could detect how free they were and how my life was restricted in many ways.

For example, I could not sign up for a loan to go to uni or continue my education, or to buy a house, or to run a business. I know a lot of people that are really well and in their businesses, they could never grow their business because they were not eligible to get a loan.

This also excluded us from being reunited with our families and loved ones. For example, if I wanted to go see my mum, I had to put in an application that I want to go from this day to this day, to this country, to see my mum. And often that was, kind of, like controlled by the immigration and were refused often.

In a bigger picture, our life was controlled by the institutions, by the immigration, and people in power. We did not have control of our life. We felt like we were… It's awful to say, but we felt that we are like animals controlled by these people that are controlling our lives.

RUBY:

So you spent so many crucial years of your life on a temporary protection visa, but now along with 19,000 other people, your visa status will change. So what does that mean for how you can live?

ZAKI:

It was just life changing. I could not believe it. I got really emotional and I started crying.

In a sense, we feel we are normal human beings with a permanent visa. I feel equal to an Australian person. To live on my terms, to live where I want to, and to be able to choose what I want to do with my life. And all those decisions were taken away from me and for many other thousands of refugees for the past ten years.

There are few people in my life that this temporary visa completely ruined their lives. So I had to call them, you know, to tell them the news. And we were just in tears, you know, on the phone crying. And I was just telling how this will change his life, and how he can see his kids and his wife. It was a very emotional moment. And that sort of reflects the other 19,000 refugees that were in our situation.

So now with these new changes, I can basically go and see my family whenever I want to. I can spend time with my family. I can travel whenever, wherever I like to. I can go back to uni and continue my education. These are basic things that we can do now, but the most important thing is we can be a normal human being, which we never felt.

RUBY:

And Zaki, as you say – I’m sure it is overwhelming, the sense of relief after living on a Temporary Protection Visa to find out that you won't have to anymore and you’ll have some permanency to your life. But this change, it doesn’t make every refugee in Australia permanent does it? There are thousands of people who will not be offered this pathway. So is there also sadness in this moment?

ZAKI:

Yeah, there are thousands of other people that are affected by fast track process and this does not end the temporariness and cruelty, the suffering that they're going through, unfortunately. And that really pains me.

And there's no easy solution for them to get a permanent visa, and to see their families, or sponsor their families. It's a very painful moment for me to see it happen, more cruelty and sadness with other friends.

RUBY:

We’ll be back in a moment.

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Archival tape – Anthony Albanese:

“Australia's Operation Sovereign Borders policy architecture remains unchanged. We have continued to operate on that basis. What we have done though, is to not leave people in limbo who have been… who have been in Australia for a decade or more. This only applies to people who arrived in 2013 or before”

RUBY:

Zaki, this pathway that you and so many people living on TPV’s now have, it’s not being offered to everyone. There is this distinction that's been made based on a certain date in Australian history. If you arrived before 2013, then you can now be granted permanent protection by the government, but if you arrived after the date that Operation Sovereign Borders began, you won’t be offered that pathway. What do you make of that distinction?

ZAKI:

So I'll take you one step back when this cruelty and return policy was introduced on the refugees. It got really bad and cruel after 2013 when Rudd announced that anyone arriving in Australia will never call Australia home.

Archival tape – Kevin Rudd:

“Tonight I want to speak to you about a matter of great importance to all of us. The rules have changed.”

ZAKI:

In particular, those that were sent to Nauru and PNG. We refer to them as transitory refugees.

Archival tape – Scott Morrison:

“You have been brought to this place here, because you have sought to illegally enter Australia by boat. The new Australian government will not be putting up with those sorts of arrivals.”

ZAKI:

Some people have gone from Nauru in PNG to other countries, for example: the US, New Zealand, and Canada.

Archival tape – Tony Abbott:

“30,000 people currently here who have come illegally by boat awaiting assessment won’t get permanent residency, they will get temporary protection visas”

ZAKI:

There's a particular group of people that are really young. They were kids in Nauru. They were transferred to Australia, went to school, finished school, and as soon as they turned 18, they will get a new bridging visa with no study rights.

In this particular case that we’re advocating for, is a 19 year old young woman from Iran. She finished high school. She does have a full scholarship to study law. But when she turned 18, the immigration has taken her study rights away from her and her life stopped. So for these 1000 refugees, the living situation is really horrible. In particular, for the youngest ones that do really well and do want to study or build their lives, but the system and institutions, the refugee policy, still punish them because their parents were forced to leave their country. And now they're here, in their words, their childhood was taken away from them. They tried everything to build a future, and that future has been taken away by the immigration from them. To sort of see these young people and listen to them is just heartbreaking. They're equal human beings, they are refugees. We should treat them equally human as we treat other refugees as Australian citizen.

RUBY:

And a lot has changed in Australia since 2013. There have been changes in government, changes to refugee and immigration policy. But at the same time, there is a lot that hasn't changed as well. Just last month, for example, the Albanese government voted to reauthorize offshore processing in Nauru. And so I wonder if you reflect on the last decade or so, and your experience of sharing your story with Australians. Do you think people have started to see your rights differently over that time?

ZAKI:

I do reflect a lot on how people see refugees, or how they react when they hear refugee stories, and the word refugee itself.

You know, I feel like I'm just a normal human being. It’s…it’s really… I get really emotional when I reflect about how awful they thought that we were…

There were these extra rules that were in place for us. You had to sign an extra code of behaviour the way we were supposed to behave. If we behave in a certain way that was not welcomed by the Australian immigration, we would have been detained back. It wasn't very clear as well, for example, speaking up to media or sharing your story could have breached those rules and it could have been detained

However, it’s very painful to see that people that sought asylum at the very similar time to me are still suffering in Nauru, in PNG. After ten years, they still are detained, or are in a horrible situation because return policy that was introduced years ago. I talk to them very regularly and they are not well mentally. The system and the processes have broken them. What I would love to see from the government is to bring them here, because the immigration has broken them mentally and physically. It's time to fix them. It's time to give them hope. It's time to give their lives back to them.

It's damaging. It's harmful. We have lost so many people by this return policy that has ended their lives. I wish that was not the case. I wish that many people that ended their life would have been here today to celebrate this moment, to call Australia home. And those islands should be closed, should not be a place where the system and immigration torture people based on the arrivals.

RUBY:

Just finally Zaki, have you thought at all about what you might do first when you do get your permanent visa? What are you looking forward to?

ZAKI:

Yeah, I have been reflecting on that. The first thing that I want to do is get a travel document and travel. You know, get on a plane and finally fly out like a free man, which I always dreamed of. Then go to uni, continue my education. But most importantly, again, just having the sense that I'm not the temporary person anymore. My existence is not temporary. I can live here permanently and I have a safe home.

That worry and that heavy heart emotion attached with my life has gone away now.

It's an interesting and new chapter of my life, and I'm really looking forward to it.

RUBY:

Well I wish you all the best with it Zaki, and thank you for talking to me today!

ZAKI:

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today…

Sydney’s Mardi Gras parade has returned to the streets for the first time since 2020, with tens of thousands gathering to mark the occasion, and 12,000 marching in the parade.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese became the first Australian prime minister to March. Having first marched in 1983 as a private citizen, Albanese said it was sad it had taken this long for a Prime Minister to march in the parade.

Coinciding with Mardi Gras, Sydney is hosting World Pride for the first time, the festival continues until March 5.

And…

72 per cent of young people in Australia do not think they will ever own a home.

A Resolve Strategic poll has found sentiment about home ownership among 18-34 year olds had sunk further than this time year ago.

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