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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.

A week after her secret relationship with a politician being investigated over corruption was first revealed, NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian is still facing questions over what she knew.

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Woman #1:

“So, did you feel like it was a serious relationship--?

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

[Speaking over interviewer] “No, I was-- I was…”

RUBY:

Despite new allegations and mounting pressure, Berejiklian is so far standing firm and refusing to resign.

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Man #1

“What’s the test for you to resign?”

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“When I’ve done something wrong.”

RUBY:

Today, national correspondent for The Saturday Paper Mike Seccombe on the Premier’s connection to a disgraced MP, and what it means for her political future.

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RUBY:

Mike, where does this story start?

MIKE:

Well, it has its roots, I guess, in some wheeling and dealing that occurred in local council in Sydney's inner west in 2016. And there was an ICAC investigation into this, and they were secretly recorded phone calls involved.

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“My client is mega big, and got mega money. And wants two or three DA approved projects right now. Today.”

MIKE:

And one of them was between the Liberal MP for Wagga Wagga, Daryl Maguire, and a Canterbury City councillor, which showed that Maguire was trying to strike a lucrative deal for a multi-billion dollar sale of a Sydney property to a big Chinese developer.

So anyway, that revelation forced Daryl McGuire's resignation back in 2018, first from the Liberal Party, and then a month later from the parliament.

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“I can confirm that this morning I spoke to Mr Maguire - he advised me of his intention to resign from Parliament before Parliament resumes. I accepted that…”

MIKE:

Now, Maguire is under investigation again at another ICAC enquiry for more alleged impropriety. And this time, it's put the spotlight on the premier, Gladys Berejiklian. And that's because, in some incredible scenes under questioning during an open hearing at ICAC last week, the premier admitted that she'd been in a secret relationship with him for the past five years.

RUBY:

Okay, so there's a lot going on here. But let's start with the premier's relationship with Daryl Maguire. What do we know about that?

MIKE:

Well, according to Berejiklian’s evidence, that relationship began around the time of the 2015 state election.

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Man #2:

“Is it right to say that you were in a close personal relationship with Mr Maguire from at least about the time of the 2015 election?”

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“Or slightly after, thereabouts. Thereabouts. To the best of my recollection.”

MIKE:

And the details of it all emerged through ICAC’s access to some secretly taped phone recordings and text messages between Maguire and Berejiklian.

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“Apparently Noel Blair's rung up to say, tell Daryl not to worry, I'm raising the issue on his behalf in China.”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“Good.”

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“And I said, well, what's that got to do with us…”

MIKE:

Before the enquiry, Berejiklian said that she had very assiduously kept it secret for a couple of reasons. The first one, of course, the obvious one, because it might become awkward if it became known that the premier was having a love affair with another member of Parliament. But the other one was curious...

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Man #2:

“Is part of the reason that at least you sought to keep it private, you thought it would be awkward for a minister or a premier to have a personal relationship with one of the members of parliament?”

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“In part, but also more substantially I’m a very private person, and I didn't feel the relationship had sufficient substance for it to be made public.”

MIKE:

Berejiklian told the inquiry she was, quote “very forceful” unquote, in calling for McGuire to resign back in 2018. And yet their secret close personal relationship, as she coyly euphemises it, continued throughout, which seems fairly remarkable; here she is pushing him out of parliament at the same time maintaining the relationship.

And in fact, the relationship continued until after she was first required to give evidence to this inquiry back on August 16.

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“Well, obviously, a few months ago when I was asked to support this enquiry, it became apparent to me that I should have absolutely no contact anymore with that individual. And I ceased all contact…”

RUBY:

Ok. So the premier was in a secret relationship with a Liberal MP for five years, including after he was forced to resign from the parliament, and while it's probably pretty mortifying to have that exposed at a corruption commission hearing, is there more to it, Mike? Why exactly was Maguire being investigated by ICAC?

MIKE:

The real business at hand, and I'll quote ICAC in this is, quote: “investigating allegations that from 2012 to August 2018, McGuire engaged in conduct that involved a breach of public trust by using his public office, involving his duties as a member of the New South Wales Parliament and the use of parliamentary resources to improperly gain a benefit for himself and/or entities close to him.” In other words, y’know, he was using his parliamentary position to make a buck.

I might say this, that these are more than just allegations now, because under questioning on Wednesday, McGuire admitted that he had indeed used parliamentary staff and resources, you know, the parliamentary library, etc. to pursue his private business interests. He had effectively turned his Parliament House office into an office for his company, G8way International, in which, you know, scams were plotted and bags containing thousands of dollars were received. You know, he's now confessed to all manner of perfidious activity.

While a lot of this conduct was going on during its relationship with Berejiklian, it's important to stress that there's no suggestion, so far at least, that Berejiklian herself acted corruptly.

RUBY:

Mmhm. So Daryl Maguire is being accused of using his public office to improperly benefit himself. And while he was allegedly doing that, he was in a relationship with the premier, so did they ever talk about this?

MIKE:

Yes, a lot. A whole trove of communications has been exposed by ICAC in the course of the hearings, you know, through these phone intercepts and texts, in which his finances and business dealings were discussed. And which, you know, raised concerns of the classic ‘what did she know and when did she know it’ type. Right back at the beginning, before she even said, I might add, that they were in a close personal relationship, there's an exchange, for example, where Maguire wrote “Hawkiss, good news. One of my contacts sold a hotel for five point eight million. I had put her in contact, so I should make 5K”.

And Berejiklian, I might add, explained that Hawkiss, which he'd misspelt, is actually Hokis and it's an Armenian term of endearment; translates roughly to my soul or my beloved or my dear. So, you know, it was a fairly intimate way for a politician to address the Premier. Anyway, in reply she wrote “Congrats!!!” Three exclamation points. “Great news!!!” Three more exclamation points. “Woo hoo!”

The exchange continued as they discussed the exact percentage that he had received his commission on this deal. And Berejiklian has consistently claimed that she knew no specifics of the schemes and scams and certainly nothing to raise concerns about their propriety and effectively that she sort of glazed over, I guess you would say, often when he was talking about them, you know, she would sort of just take, you know, the equivalent of ‘yes dear’.

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“He, as I said, was a big talker, quite fanciful in what he described. So I don't think I would have given it much attention or notice at the time.”

MIKE:

But she conceded she never had checked. It's these revelations that have put a question mark over her judgement, at the very least. And now, I might add, her leadership.

The most damning evidence so far relates to a deal over a parcel of land next to the new Western Sydney Airport. Maguire told Berejiklian that the deal could alleviate, if not wipe out his massive debts. And when he said that, her reply was that she didn't need to know any more about it.

RUBY:

We'll be back in a moment.

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RUBY:

Mike, a key part of the investigation into Daryl Maguire relates to this deal over land next to the new Western Sydney Airport site, so why is that deal so controversial?

MIKE:

Well, the land was owned by Louise Radloff Waterhouse of the noted racing family, and it also involves major Chinese development interests. As I mentioned, McGuire and his business associate would have received a large commission had the deal gone through. And so Maguire was lobbying on behalf of this deal. But it's not just the size of the thing, it's also the timing of it, which is of particular significance, I think.

RUBY:

What do you mean by that? What is significant about the timing?

MIKE:

Well, by 2017, which is when all this stuff was going on, Maguire was considering resigning from parliament. And he had a series of phone calls with Berejiklian in which they discussed their future together. The situation is that once he got out of politics, they would be able to come out of the closet, effectively, in terms of their relationship. So the full detail of what was discussed isn't known because some of the calls - one on August the 1st, has been played to both Berejiklian and Maguire in private session, but we haven't heard it. But both parties have been questioned about its contents in open session, so we're getting some clues.

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Man #2:

“...and not just your future personally, but a potential future for both of you going forward, is that right?”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“Yes. In a relationship, yes, that’s right.”

MIKE:

And what we know is that Berejiklian was very keen that Maguire should quit politics before the 2019 election. And she said that she thought Maguire shared that desire.

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“...I need you to process in your head what you want to do, right? But I also need you to come to the realisation that it's not got anything to do with me.”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“Correct. Correct.”

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“I’m trying to support you, not stress you.”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“I don’t want to stay. I want to go.”

MIKE:

Financial considerations, she went on, were not an issue on her part; she was an independent woman, she was okay. All she really wanted out of it was to normalise the status of their relationship. But finances definitely were an issue to Maguire. He had debts of $1.5 odd million, and once he quit, he would only get a parliamentary pension of around $80,000. So he was in need of sources of income. And he told ICAC that he had sought guidance from the premier on all of this.

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“So then I had coffee with Louise Waterhouse.”

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“Oh yeah, how’s she going?”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“Yeah good. She’s got a big problem. So I took her up to your office and said here, can you help solve it. She’s got a lot of property out at Badgery’s Creek…”

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“Yeah.”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“...and the plans department and RMS and all them…”

MIKE:

As I've noted already, we don't know all that was discussed, but in a subsequent phone intercept, McGuire told her he thought he'd done the deal. He said, “looks like we finally got the Badgery's Creek stuff done and I'll have enough money to pay off my debts.”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“So hopefully that’s about half of all that gone now.”

MIKE:

To which she replies,

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

“I don’t need to know about that bit.”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“No you don’t!”

RUBY:

Right, OK. And so what is the premier, Gladys Berejiklian, what is she saying about that exchange over the deal now?

MIKE:

Berejiklian’s response is that she doesn't have a specific recollection of what was said. You know, if she said she didn't need to know, it was because she wasn't interested, rather than because she was deliberately keeping herself at arm's length from a dodgy deal. Anyway, counsel assisting have tried to pin McGuire down on exactly how much detail he had communicated to the premier about this Badgery's Creek deal,

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Man #2:

“Doing the best you can, what did you tell her about the Badgerys Creek stuff?”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“I don't recall. I just don't recall what I would have said.”

MIKE:

And he, I must say, has been either very forgetful or very evasive.

Archival Tape -- Unidentified Man #2:

“But to what...to what level of specifics did you go, as you can recall?”

Archival Tape -- Daryl Maguire:

“...I don't know that I ever went into specifics, it was just broad discussion stuff.”

RUBY:

Okay, so, Mike, where do we go from here? Because ICAC will continue its investigations and deliver its findings. But in the meantime, what is the political damage to Berejiklian?

MIKE:

Well, it's immense. Immense damage has been done to her standing. She was a premier who was previously seen as, you know, diligent, competent, focused, you know, not terribly exciting, but a safe pair of hands. But she barely survived two motions of no confidence in the parliament on Wednesday.

Archival Tape -- Jodi McKay:

“...Deputy Speaker, I give notice that I will move under standing order 112, that the premier no longer enjoys the confidence of this house…”

MIKE:

She's become increasingly testy in responses to media questioning, not to mention the baiting by the opposition leader, Jodi McKay, who said on Thursday that Berejiklian was a, quote, “sounding board for corruption” unquote.

Archival Tape -- Jodi McKay:

“The question is about why the premier did not fulfil her legal obligation and report Daryl Maguire - you were complicit in his corruption and his misconduct! Why did you not fulfil your legal obligation…”

MIKE:

And, you know, all the signs are that Berejiklian is becoming increasingly stressed by the whole thing.

Archival Tape -- Gladys Berejiklian:

[Berejiklian interrupted while speaking]
“...Excuse me, let me finish. Let me finish. Okay? I’ve given you your turn for the last three days, let me finish.”

MIKE:

So, you know, in summary, the government's greater strength is now being widely seen as its greatest weakness, including by some of her own troops. In fact, I would go so far as to venture that she might have been gone already, were there a decent alternative candidate. But the person who looked most likely, the right winger and treasurer, Dominic Perrottet, is himself damaged goods at the moment as a result of a scandal he's been caught up in. So, you know, I think at the moment, Berejiklian is remaining there largely because there's no one else who looks like they might either have the numbers or potentially the clean reputations to replace her.

I might say, I think that the defence that Berejiklian herself and her supporters are using, you know, that she simply stuffed up in her private life, is looking increasingly threadbare as ICAC unearths more and more evidence linking her to Maguire's business dealings. I call it the ‘Poor Gladys’ defence, because, you know, it seeks to portray her as a sort of lonely, vulnerable woman rather than what she is, which is a very tough and capable politician who, frankly, should have seen Maguire for the shonk that he was, you know, from a mile away. So it's got a way to run yet, but I would make this point very strongly: this is not primarily an issue about a personal relationship, although a personal relationship is central to it. It's actually a matter of integrity and government.

RUBY:

And integrity seemingly in short supply at the moment in NSW politics.

MIKE:

Hah! Dare I say almost permanently in short supply in NSW politics.

RUBY:

Mike, thank you so much for talking to me today.

MIKE:

My pleasure.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today:

Two officers within the federal government’s Infrastructure Department are under investigation in relation to a $30 million purchase of land next to the western Sydney airport.

The department has launched four separate investigations of the 2018 land purchase, after it emerged it was bought at 10 times the market rate. Deputy Prime Minister, Michael McCormack, who is also the infrastructure minister, insists the purchase was a bargain for taxpayers.

And the NSW Premier has announced a further easing of restrictions around gatherings after the state recorded zero local cases of COVID-19.

Gatherings in outdoor public spaces and group bookings at restaurants will be increased to 30 people from this Friday

I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am. See ya tomorrow.

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