RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.

Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp is under assault, with two former Prime Ministers, from opposite sides of politics, uniting in their criticism of the media company.

Malcolm Turnbull and Kevin Rudd have both recently declared that News Corp’s influence is harming democracy.

Today, National Correspondent at The Saturday Paper Mike Seccombe, on whether the world’s biggest media empire might actually be under threat.

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RUBY:

Mike, last week, the former prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, got into a pretty heated exchange on national television over the impact Rupert Murdoch's News Corp has had on Australian politics, and on climate policy. So tell me about what happened.

Archival Tape -- Q and A music:

MIKE:

Well, on Monday night, Turnbull made a reappearance after a long time, on the ABC's Q&A programme.

Archival Tape -- Hamish Macdonald:

“I’m here with Josie Cullen who has our first question tonight. Answering your questions, the former PM Malcolm Turnbull…”

MIKE:

And he tore, I mean, really tore into the Australian newspapers most senior writer, Paul Kelly, about News Corp's political bias and in particular, its position on climate change.

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“Now, saying you believe [clapping] saying that you believe or disbelieve in global warming is like saying you believe or disbelieve in gravity.”

MIKE:

He said the company had turned an issue of physics and science into an issue of values and identity.

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“You've turned something that should be a question of engineering and economics into undiluted ideology and idiocy and we are paying the price in delayed action to address global warming…”

MIKE:

Turnbull made it very personal. He went so far as to call for Kelly to do as Rupert Murdoch's son James has done and quit the company.

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“How offensive, how biased, how destructive does it have to be Paul before you will say, one of our greatest writers and journalists? It's enough. I'm out of it”

MIKE:

It was just a furious performance by Turnbull. And I've got to say, Kelly was pretty furious in return.

Kelly said on at least three occasions that I can recall he bellowed back at Turnbull. How dare you? And Turnbull in reply bellowed back.

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“You said how dare I do it, I dare to do it. And I’m saying to you Paul, it’s about time that people that work for the Murdoch organisation speak up and say publicly what they say privately.”

MIKE:

So anyway, it was, I've got to say, the most entertaining Q&A that I can recall for a long time and a clip of the exchange has gone viral right around the world. And I think it struck a chord with people all over the Anglosphere.

I think people across the world, wherever there's News Corp, are increasingly looking for a way to fight back.

RUBY:

Mm okay. And Mike you have been speaking to Malcolm Turnbull about this, tell me about what he’s been saying to you..

MIKE:

When I spoke to Turnbull, which I might add, was on the afternoon just before he went on Q&A...

Archival Tape -- Mike:

“If we want to be on the record at any point I’ll flag it…”

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“Let’s just say from now on we’re not speaking for background. I’ll speak to you on the record.”

Archival Tape -- Mike:

“Alright.”

MIKE:

Turnbull, who's a former journalist himself, recalled a time when the Murdoch newspapers in Australia, as he put it, dealt with the news as it came, but generally leant right at election time, which he said was perfectly legitimate. He said he has no argument with news organisations having an ideological leaning left or right, as long as they don't, as he put it, make stuff up.

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“They don't make stuff up. They don't undertake vendettas, they don’t… ”

MIKE:

And Turnbull's take on it was that this has changed over the years. He said he wasn't quite sure when, but in the past decade or so it's changed.

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“They've gone from being newspapers, they’ve turned into political propaganda. You might call it the Foxification of News Corp….”

MIKE:

He called it, you know, literally undiluted partisan propaganda that you get these days in the News Corp publications. And he said, in a way, The Australian, because it purports to be the responsible outlet, was the worst of it.

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“They support and cover up for their mates. They attack their enemies…”

MIKE:

Turnbull's take is just the responsible media do not behave the way News Corp does. And he identified NewsCorp as one of a troika, he called it, of three centres of power that conspired together to end his prime ministership and which continue to work to subvert any critical, credible climate policy in Australia. And those three things are the right wing of the liberal and national parties...

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“… amplified by the right wing populist media, of which News Corp is the principal part; and then, of course, you've got the vested interests, the fossil fuel lobby.”

MIKE:

And, you know, he said that this combination has done immense damage to the Australian democratic process and in particular, when it comes to dealing with the issue of climate change.

Archival Tape -- Turnbull:

“It is crazy. It is completely crazy…”

RUBY:

Mike, a lot of people have been critical of News Corp and the approach that it's taken on issues like climate change for a while now. But it is still extraordinary to have a former prime minister from the conservative side of politics adding their voice. So is Turnbull's stance having an impact, do you think?

MIKE:

Well, yes, absolutely I do. I think that, you know, Turnbull's intervention has kind of crystallised a growing perception against Murdoch's influence.

Also, the fact that we have not only a conservative former prime minister, but also a Labour former prime minister, Kevin Rudd, involved, I think it brings a degree of sort of bipartisanship to it.

And it was Rudd actually who set the whole ball rolling on this latest outbreak of criticism of the Murdoch media.

Archival Tape -- Kevin Rudd:

“Today I’m speaking to you as a former PM of Australia, passionate about our country’s future.”

MIKE:

When he draughted a petition calling for a royal commission into media ownership and concentration in Australia.

Archival Tape -- Rudd:

“An official petition to the Australian parliament, calling on the parliament to establish a RC into the abuse of media monopoly in Australia, particularly by the Murdoch media…”

MIKE:

Which is the way News Corp uses its media power to shift the debate in favour of the right wing of politics and big business and in particular, the fossil fuel lobby. And that petition, which was launched, I think about a month ago, was tabled last week and it had attracted over half a million signatures.

It was the biggest petition ever in Australian political history. And I might add it might have had even more signatures. But for the fact that it actually crashed the Parliament House website with the number of people trying to sign up. So clearly, they've tapped into a pretty significant groundswell of opinion out there that we are not being well served by the Murdoch media.

RUBY:

We’ll be back in a moment.

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RUBY:

Mike, Kevin Rudd's petition calling for a royal commission into News Corp has focussed attention on this issue. But like Turnbull, Kevin Rudd wasn't always a critic of the organisation. So when did Rudd turn against News Corp?

MIKE:

Well, I can't give you a precise date, but I can tell you that almost exactly three years ago, in November 2017, in an interview with our colleague Karen Middleton at the Saturday paper, that was the first time Rudd referred to the Murdoch media as, quote, a cancer on democracy, unquote. And that's a description that he's repeated ad nauseum since in other interviews.

Archival Tape -- Rudd:

“What’s happened for the last four years, you see this is where it’s become a cancer on our democracy”

Archival Tape -- Rudd:

“That’s the cancer of our democracy in Australia… “

MIKE:

So, you know, he's been at it for a fair while, like Turnbull, he considers that the Murdoch media were a key part of of his removal from office and that they also played the major role in defeating his efforts at a response to, you know, a more vigorous response to climate change in Australia.

News Corp is just too powerful. I mean, they all try to to get News Corp to be gentle on them. Kevin Rudd did that. And I might say when I spoke with him, we talked about that.

Archival Tape -- Rudd:

“and it skews our national conversation to the far right and doesn't allow the nation to have a conversation about the things that matter. How do you do climate while…”

MIKE:

Rudd also, I might add, points out that in 19 consecutive federal and state elections in Australia since 2010...

Archival Tape -- Rudd:

“Murdoch has campaigned viciously for one side of politics, and viciously against the other”

MIKE:

So, you know, like Turnbull, he's just fed up with the partisan and I've got to say, pretty shameless political interference that is a feature of News Corp's commentary.

Archival Tape -- Rudd:

“The whole idea of a vibrant, independent media nationally, regionally and locally is the lifeblood of a democracy. And unless we find a model which makes that possible then we're not worthy of, frankly, handing on the nation to the next generation.”

RUBY:

Okay. And so, Mike, Kevin Rudd and the petition aside, the likelihood of a Royal Commission being held into NewsCorp fairly low - there aren’t many current Labor or Coalition politicians who would back it. So what is likely to happen?

MIKE:

Yeah, well, I'm pleased to report that on Wednesday, last week, the day after the petition was tabled, you know, two days after Turnbull's extraordinary performance on Q&A, the Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young moved in the Senate for the establishment of a Senate enquiry into the “diversity, independence and reliability of Australian media”.

Archival Tape -- Sarah Hansen-Young:

“Thank you, Mr President, I amend the motion in the terms circulated and ask that it be taken as formal”

MIKE:

It also, you know, covered various terms of reference. But everyone knew what it was really about. It was about providing a forum for the many critics and victims of Murdoch's media empire to speak up and to do so under the protection of parliamentary privilege.

So it's true that the Senate enquiry won't have the same profile and it won't have the same resources as a royal commission. But it's still you know, it does allow people to speak up and to do so with some protection against, you know, retribution.

But what I found most interesting about when Hanson-Young moved for this enquiry was that the government didn't try to stop it getting up. They didn't even put it to a vote.

Archival Tape -- Speaker:

“Is there any objection to the motion being taken as formal? There being none, Senator Hanson Young…”

MIKE:

And I think that's significant, that instead she just moved it and it was instantly passed on the voices, you know, over in a couple of minutes and it's up.

Archival Tape -- Speaker:

“I move the motion as amended…

Question is the motion as amended be agreed, those of that opinion say I… The I’s have it…”

RUBY:

Why do you think that is, Mike? Why do you think the government has let this enquiry - which could be damaging to NewsCorp - get up without any resistance?

MIKE:

I think the only inference to be drawn from these fascinating events is that the Morrison government had determined that it was politically unwise to be seen to be defending Rupert Murdoch and his media empire. I mean, I can't think of any other other explanation for it.

As someone said to me, this would seem to be pretty ungrateful considering all that Murdoch's media have done for the coalition. But, you know, so I think it reflects the fact that the government is at least aware of this sort of growing groundswell of public opinion about News Corp and maybe points to a tiny crack emerging in News Corp's pretty robust armour.

RUBY:

So, Mike, do you think that we're seeing a weakening of Murdoch's power, particularly here in Australia? Is all of this a sign that things are beginning to shift?

MIKE:

Well, I guess that depends on how you define their power. I mean, I do think that News Corp's influence is an agenda setter, you know, including within other media is in decline to some extent.

And if you look at climate change, which is the main issue of concern for Rudd and Turnbull and all reality based people really, well, we see that the long disinformation campaign of the Murdoch media, you know, the anti science campaign is a losing battle for them. The overwhelming majority of Australians now know that climate change is real. They support stronger action than we're currently getting from the federal government.

All the states and many of the big corporates are taking action, you know, to reduce their carbon emissions, to be carbon neutral by 2050. The big banks and the insurers are not covering fossil fuel projects anymore, etc.. So, you know, so much for News Corp's influence there. They're perpetrating a myth and the rest of the world is getting on with reality. So. Yeah, but. I think they're still powerful, but not as much as they were.

RUBY:

Mike, thank you so much for your time today.

MIKE:

My pleasure.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today…

Thousands of Donald Trump supporters converged on Washington DC over the weekend to protest against the election results and claim, without evidence, the presidency was stolen.

Trump drove through the crowd in a limousine motorcade on the way to his golf club.

And social services organisations have welcomed the Victorian government’s announcement it will spend over $5 billion building new public housing facilities.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am. See ya tomorrow.