Archival tape – Coronation:

“We approach the most sacred part of this service of coronation, the anointing with holy oil, when the king is disrobed, robes of state are taken away, and then he is shielded from public view. The screens being brought to the theatre. The archbishop will anoint the king on his hands, breast, and head. Just as Solomon was anointed by Zadok the Priest. The biblical text that was set to this triumphant music By Handel.”

[Theme Music Starts]

RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am.

If over the weekend, you watched the coronation of King Charles III, you would have caught a very brief glimpse of Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, at Westminster Abbey to swear allegiance to our head of state.

Archival tape – ABC:

“I think they're supposed to go in alphabetical order. So we should be towards the front..”

Archival tape – ABC:

“Yep. We're seeing David Hurley now. Anthony Albanese”

Archival tape – ABC:

“Australia with Sam Kerr! Sam Kerr, there she is!. “

But when it came time for King Charles to swear his oath to the realms – realms like Australia were almost a footnote.

Archival tape – Coronation:

“Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain ,and Northern Ireland, your other realms, and the territories, to any of them belonging or pertaining, according to their respective laws and customs?”

Archival tape – Charles III:

“I solemnly promise so to do.”

So, how relevant is King Charles? Is a republic now possible? And how quickly could another referendum be upon us?

Today, co-chair of the Australian Republican Movement, Craig Foster, on the coronation, Anthony Albanese’s decision to attend and the path to a republic.

Archival tape – Coronation:

“God save the king.”

Archival tape – Coronation Crowd:

“God save King Charles! Long live King Charles! May the king live forever!”

It’s Monday, May 8.

[Theme Music Ends]

RUBY:

Hello, welcome to 7am, Craig.

CRAIG:

It's good to be chatting with you.

RUBY:

Likewise. So Craig, you're the new co-chair of the Australian Republican Movement. What an interesting time to take on that role. We've got a new monarch, King Charles, he’s just been coronated. Which means there has been a lot of ceremony, a lot of ritual on display. The palace unveiled a recipe for people to cook on Coronation Day. They released words that people could actually say out loud to swear their allegiance to the king in their living rooms if they wanted. What have you thought as you've watched all of this?

CRAIG:

I doubt that too many ovens are going to be troubled by a coronation quiche across Australia. And I can assure people that there will be, you know, many, many of us who would probably be chomping down on a democracy sausage. And that pretty much encapsulates the feeling that we have about the entire coronation, is that it's really an opportunity for all Australians to reflect on our commitment to democracy.

And in relation to the pledge that you talked about, and the request to all Australians to cry out our allegiance to His Majesty, and heirs, and successors. The reality is that most of Australia is just kind of getting on with life.

The last time a king, and a Queen, of course, with Elizabeth in ‘52, but in ‘37 George VI was crowned.

Archival tape – 1937 Coronation Newsreel:

“For the coronation His Majesty had received the dominion's presence. From left to right our group shows Mr Savage of New Zealand, Mr Lyons, Australia, Mr Baldwin…”

CRAIG:

And the difference couldn't be more stark, and really makes very clear where Australia is now and why this is so anachronistic, and why we need to move on.

Archival tape – 1937 Coronation Newsreel:

"The archbishop of canterbury asks all those present whether they recognise their king, they cry out 'God save King George'.”

Archival tape – 1937 Coronation Newsreel:

“God save King George!”

CRAIG:

Back in 1937, the Navy was in the harbour. The Royal Air Force was flying over Sydney. There were 200,000 people in Centennial Park.

They had what they called a pageantry of empire.

Archival tape – 1937 Coronation Newsreel:

“And Australia dedicates service of king and empire, the might of her young nation. Army and Navy parading in Centennial Park.”

CRAIG:

And the nation was incredibly engaged in what it saw as a spectacle that it was very much a part of. Today, we're completely and utterly disconnected. And the research already says the vast majority of Australians already want to become a republic.

We're very conflicted. You know, you can see at the moment. It's like Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister, here he is going to the coronation. He doesn't need to, but he's going there for his own reasons, and he's been asked whether he would take the pledge himself. Well, he doesn't need to. He's not obligated to. There's no act of Parliament that says the Prime Minister must take the Pledge of Allegiance to the king or queen, at their actual coronation. Of course, when sworn in as MPs, we all know that that still remains, and we'd love to see that removed as soon as possible. So he's made this decision to, you know, go and pledge what is effectively subservience on behalf of the Australian people. This should be the last time the Australian prime minister is either expected to, or obliged to, or any other minister, pledge their allegiance rather than embody and represent all Australians. And the democratic principles that we say that we believe in so deeply.

RUBY:

The pledge aside, Anthony Albanese, I mean, he is a Republican, but while he's been in the UK for the coronation, he has actually said in an interview to Piers Morgan that a Republic isn't something that is urgently on his agenda. What do you say to that?

CRAIG:

Well, I think he's right in saying that all of Australia's attention must be focussed on First Nations needs right now. You know, we don't need to be introducing any complexity into the Voice referendum. It's already a huge challenge for Australia. I don't think we can underestimate what it is that we are confronting. We are trying to have conversations and make a big decision about 235 years of our history, about which we've really never talked. And therefore it's critically important that all of us remain on that path.

In this moment, though, of course, because the coronation is on, he has to be asked, particularly because he has said that he is going to take the pledge.

Archival tape – Piers Morgan:

“But just to be clear, in the air, there has been confusion of whether you will, as the Prime Minister Australia, in the Abbey, that you will say the oath.”

Archival tape – Anthony Albanese:

“As the Prime Minister of Australia, it's expected that I will do that. But that doesn't mean, of course, that Australians don't have a wide range of views. And it's also the case that as Australian Prime Minister, I'm accountable to the Australian people, I mean that’s who I serve.”

CRAIG:

And so I think that his comments are right. He's saying, look, I'm a lifelong Republican, but, you know, for whatever reason, he feels as though it's appropriate. I happen to disagree with him.

But I think it would have been a wonderful statement for him to say, “look, the Governor-General is Charles's representative in Australia, I've got, you know, I'm here to manage Australia on behalf of Australians. We've got a lot of challenges on the table now. I don't feel as though I need to be there, and I pledged allegiance to him. He is our head of state. I wish him the very best for his coronation”, and move on.

I mean, Anthony could be here, you know, doing his day job. He shouldn't have to go there. What we should be doing is saying as a country, “okay, we're now fully independent, we're self-governed, we've got constitutional independence and an Australian as our head of state.” And we should all be saying this. And you know, the monarchy and the British crown played a, you know, a very significant role in Australian history, as one of the three big pillars of our history. We've got First nations, 65,000 years, British traditions, and we've got, you know, the migrant contribution to the country. We wish him the best and just move on.

RUBY:

And you say that we as a country, we’re more disconnected from the monarchy than ever. But doesn't the fact that the Prime Minister goes to the coronation, who swears allegiance, that all our news channels here in Australia cover the event, it becomes this major national event here in Australia. Doesn't all of that suggest to you that a connection to the monarchy, it does linger on in our national consciousness?

CRAIG:

Oh, it certainly lingers. But I'm saying that the emotional connection to the monarchy itself, and to Charles as a head of state, has never been lower. And much of the media is reporting, what they're even saying in the UK actually, but they're calling Charles the “king of apathy.” You could certainly say that here in Australia. Australia's just moving on. So the research says that around 70% of Australians say that Charles is unrepresentative of us as a country. I think that's pretty difficult to argue against on many levels, and 60% of Australians say that they want a republic now. There's only around 8% of Australians who consider themselves devout monarchists, so in other words, 92% of Australia either are for, or support the challenge. The question is what the change looks like down the track.

RUBY:

Okay, so what do you believe Australia could look like if we were a Republic? How would things be different?

CRAIG:

Oh wow. Well, there's so many elements of it to discuss. Let me just start by saying this. Firstly, it is then our country. So we inherited our country. We haven't fully inherited Australia. You know, we still have ties to the old British Empire, and to the British monarchy. And so only 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago, you know, Australia looked at the crown in a very monochromatic way, whereas now we see both sides of the legacy of Charles as Crown, and First Nations have taken us on that journey. And that's really the beauty in 2023 of this coronation happening now, is that where, it's happening in the same year that we're walking this journey of truth telling with First Nations, and we're learning much more about the history that was denied us, and the more that we learn, the more differently we will look at the crown.

And that's not a rejection of the British traditions or involvement in Australia's history. It's an acceptance of its full complexities. We're taking that journey now with First Nations by coming together, you know, with our ancient tradition and with the traditional owners of the country. That's an incredibly important step.

Further to that and down the track in the next few years, a republic is about all of us coming together. It's about bringing the parts into, for the first time, and finally into a complete whole. All of our ancient tradition, but also committing to multiculturalism that we take such pride in today.

RUBY:

We’ll be back in a moment.

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RUBY:

Craig, the last time that a republic was on the national agenda in a major way was over 20 years ago. Which means there are many people who wouldn't have been of voting age. They might not even have been alive the last time that a republic was really a possibility. Are you worried that the message hasn't resonated with young people in Australia?

CRAIG:

Oh, well, no. The young people in Australia, is in fact, where the message has already resonated. So. You know, recent polls say that Australians between 18 and 35, I think it's more than 80%, who just look at it and basically say, “look, I just can't understand why you guys didn't make a decision a couple of decades ago.” You know, the rest of Australia is already 60% on board and of course 25 years ago when that referendum happened, I don't think we can overstate how different Australia was at that time. You know, it was an invasion day. You know, we weren't talking about the Uluru Statement and Voice to Parliament. We didn't see Diversity Council of Australia calling for, you know, anti-racism and, you know, having conversations with Australia about the way that, you know, our multicultural communities are treated, and the barriers they face across all industries in Australia. You know, we didn't see the most representative Federal Parliament ever, as we saw last time in 2022, not enough, but a step forward. And the pride that Australia took in that, the deep pride in saying, you know, here is more religions, here is more First Nations, here is more non-white Australians, here is a closer representation of real Australia in our Federal Parliament. That was an incredibly proud moment. So we have changed incredibly in 25 years, and I happen to think that's absolutely wonderful. And we're on a journey of further really important change and renewal right now, because we're looking back and discovering truths. And through truth comes new understandings. And through new understandings comes new compacts and new relationships. So what we're talking about here is having a relationship between all Australians as equals. And at the moment, we're not equals with our head of state. That's the one position where we're subservient. So the more that we learn, the closer that we are becoming to a fully independent nation.

RUBY:

And if you look at why the last referendum failed, how do you think a new path to a republic could succeed? What do you want to see in a referendum?

CRAIG:

Well, all of us have a big challenge this year with the Voice. And I think at the moment First Nations, and the majority of them who are supportive, and broader Australia are doing a pretty damn good job actually, of wrestling with what is an incredibly challenging period. But through discomfort comes growth. We all know that in our personal lives and it is also true for a country. We're experiencing this discomfort at the moment, and through that the growth that we're being offered, and being asked to support is quite extraordinary. So what happened in ‘99 was that Australia was overwhelmingly in favour of a republic.

Archival tape – News Report:

“Republicans applauding John Howard savour the moment, through all of its twists and turns the convention finally delivered a result. Australians will now decide the issue at a referendum.”

CRAIG:

The first lesson is you had a Prime Minister of the day who wasn't supportive, who was a monarchist.

Archival tape – John Howard:

“I've recognised a desire on the part of the Australian people before the turn of the century to have a vote on this issue. And even though I'm personally against it, I put it up.”

CRAIG:

That already was an extreme complication. And then, you know, there were issues around the model.

Archival tape – Malcom Turnbull:

“They’ve been running a scare campaign by saying that the Republican ideal is about abolishing the states or the Senate, which is rubbish, or about saying it would lead us to dictatorship. “

CRAIG:

The big lesson from my perspective is that for whatever reason, and rightly or wrongly, Australians were convinced that they weren't consulted to the requisite level, and they didn't feel as though they owned the model, or the model represented them.

Archival tape – Kelly Jones:

“So we're here to say that we're thrilled that the ‘No’ case has won a resounding victory.”

CRAIG:

That's the most important part. But the beauty of a republic is that it's about the will of the people. This is the point. Republic, the word comes from res publica, which means “the people's affairs”. And this is about vesting the sovereignty that is currently in King Charles, you know, sitting over in Buckingham Palace, you know, getting a shiny hat on his head. To us, it's about bringing it home to our country so that we own our own country for the first time ever, all of us. In so doing, it's critically important that that move is vested in the Australian people as it should be.

RUBY:

And just finally, is there anything good about the monarchy, the Commonwealth Games perhaps - do we lose anything by losing the monarchy, by losing the king?

CRAIG:

Well, we're not saying lose the king. It's just that Australia won't have a formal association with King Charles any further, or the British royal family. They’re existence and their future, you know, is a matter for the people of the UK. Australia's future can only be for many, many reasons, can only be by ourselves.

The pact and agreement making with First Nations. When we're reconciling our history, that's between all Australians. The Crown has nothing to do with that.

They need to account for their own contributions and past historical wrongs. But we're talking here about a conversation between all Australians. So you know what the future of the Crown is, is really, you know, not our business. You know, we wish them the very best.

There are complexities because there are, of course, positive and negatives of colonisation, and dispossession, and stolen land, and these things on one hand, and on the other. Also we have, you know, the Westminster parliamentary system of government, and we have, you know, separation of powers and rule of law and so on. So you know, those elements we want to carry forward with us. So a republic is not about a rejection of any part of our history, and nor is it a rejection of the royal family, far from it. It is an amalgamation. It is an acceptance of all parts of our history. But that acceptance has to be made in full truth. And then all of us walking forward as Australians, based on truth and justice, into a self-governed and fully independent nation for the first time.

RUBY:

Craig, thank you so much for your time.

CRAIG:

My pleasure.

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[Theme Music Starts]

RUBY:

Also in the news today…

The government has announced it will raise an extra 2.4 billion dollars in taxes from offshore gas developments over the next few years.

Yesterday, treasurer Jim Chalmers said it was important to bring forward taxation, which previously would have only begun to significantly affect most LNG projects in the 2030s.

And…

Former Coalition minister Stuart Robert has announced he’s leaving parliament.

Earlier this year, Robert admitted that during his time as minister towards the end of the Robodebt scheme, he knowingly said things that were false during interviews where he was defending the scheme – something he told the royal commission was part of his job.

I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am, see you tomorrow.

[Theme Music Ends]