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ANGE:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ange McCormack. This is 7am.

The ABC is facing mounting scrutiny over the sacking of radio presenter Antoinette Lattouf over a social media post.

While the broadcaster deals with Lattouf’s allegations of unfair dismissal, other high profile presenters have also resigned, there have been scores of redundancies, and a recent restructure is causing tension among staff about the ABC’s direction.

So, what’s going on at Aunty?

Today, contributor to The Saturday Paper and Editor of 7am, Scott Mitchell on the deeper problems and frustrations at the ABC.

It’s Wednesday, January 17.

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ANGE:

Scott, the ABC has been in the news a lot recently, especially around quite a few high profile staff leaving the organisation. What's going on?

SCOTT:

Yeah, there's been a lot in recent days and weeks Ange, it feels like there's not a day without the ABC in the headlines. And obviously for you and I, we're both former ABC staff ourselves. And so you know there's a natural interest in it.

ANGE:

Oh yeah. I mean, you know, we both have come from the ABC previously. I want to be clear about that, but also be clear that we left on good terms, both of us. We left very fondly. So we don't have a kind of axe to grind in this episode at all.

SCOTT:

Absolutely. And to catch up on what's been happening at the ABC, there's been this string of high profile departures from the ABC in the last six months or so. Last year we saw Andrew Probyn the ABC's political editor leave after being made redundant.

Audio excerpt – Reporter from Sky News:

“The ABC’s political editor Andrew Probyn has been made redundant as the national broadcaster to cut around a hundred jobs.”

SCOTT:

And soon after, journalist Stan Grant left, citing concerns about diversity at the public broadcaster.

Audio excerpt – Reporter from Sky News:

“Stan Grant has confirmed to me he has resigned from the ABC as a permanent staff…”

SCOTT:

And most recently, we've seen journalist Antoinette Lattouf fired from a position, hosting ABC Local Radio in Sydney. She's now suing the ABC of course, claiming that she was fired for personal political opinions, and racism played a role in her being let go.

And look, her case alleges those decisions went to the very top – personally involving people like the managing director David Anderson and Chair Ita Buttrose. The ABC denies a lot of that, of course, but it could be extremely significant for the ABC and for that leadership.

And we've also seen, you know, Canberra political journalist Nour Haydar leave in the last week or so, citing concerns about the ABC's coverage of the Israel-Hamas war, you know, that's also coverage the ABC has defended and stood behind.

But overall these departures meant some really bad headlines for the ABC and a lot of scrutiny.

And I think that's really interesting because in the last 12 months, the Labor government has actually restored funding to the ABC. This is a time where maybe we would have expected positive headlines for the ABC, exciting times, optimism at the broadcaster. And instead it seems to be sort of mired in a, in a state of upheaval.

So I wanted to look into what was going on at the ABC right now. And what I found was these really high-profile departures are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what's going on there. There's been a string of other redundancies, there's been some resignations and there's been other programs axed.

ANGE:

Right. So it sounds like separate to these high-profile resignations broadly behind the scenes. There's a lot more going on.

SCOTT:

Yeah, absolutely. And it all comes back to this huge restructure the ABC is going through right now. ABC management has launched yet another restructure, which feels like Groundhog Day for the ABC.

Um, but this one is particularly challenging. It formally began in June of last year, and people might have seen stories about redundancies. At that time, over 100 positions were made redundant as part of this huge restructure. And so I wanted to find out how that restructure was going six months into it and called up a lot of staff at the ABC, 14 in all spoke to me. And these current restructures, I mean, it's actually unpicking a restructure that only was announced in 2017.

So it was an important and interesting time I think to check in on this restructure and find out what exactly was happening and whether it was living up to what it set out to do.

ANGE:

Right, and what’s the ABC hoping to achieve at the moment. Why is it embarking on another restructure so soon after the last one? What's wrong?

SCOTT:

I mean, basically the scrambling to keep up with audiences who are changing how they consume news and information. And that means they're losing audience.

You know, the ABC is reaching fewer people each week than at any time in the past ten years, just a little over 65% of Australians. And that's still a huge footprint. But it is the lowest in the last decade. Even the reach of the ABC news website is down 30% according to the annual general report. And that's concerning for management to see a flagship digital product like that actually going backwards.

That's basically because the ABC isn't replenishing its ageing audience fast enough. It's not recruiting enough people to fill out the people it's losing at the back end of the demographic every year. So as it tries to get younger and more online, it's embarking on this giant restructure.

But some staff who I spoke to in the in the course of reporting this story, they expressed to me some concern that there were some decisions being made that could be making the problem worse instead of better.

ANGE:

After the break - the ABC responds.

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ANGE:

Scott. We're talking about the ABC and how it's going while it faces these high profile resignations, a kind of painful restructure. And broadly, it's grappling with funding issues as it often is. These are really big problems. How is the ABC grappling with all of these? What do they say about it?

SCOTT:

Yeah Ange, obviously I wanted to ask the ABC what was going on with the redundancies, resignations, the restructure as a whole, how the ABC budget kind of plays into all of these. And so I sent my questions into the ABC expecting that kind of stock standard written response we're used to as journalists, I suppose, because the ABC keeps pretty tight-lipped about this kind of thing. But they actually got back to me and offered me the chance to speak to one of the most senior leaders at the whole organisation. He's the head of this newly created mega division at the ABC called Content, and that's Chris Oliver-Taylor.

Audio excerpt – Chris Oliver-Taylor:

“You know, having low numbers, it's just not good. So we've got to, we've got to do that. But I also get that you can't bring everyone with you. And it also means that some people disagree violently and that's totally fine.”

SCOTT:

People listening may not have heard of him or his job, but it's massive. The new restructure means that he's essentially in charge of everything except for news at the ABC, so that includes local radio, Triple J, TV and iView shows, podcasts… So it's incredibly important position that's been created under this restructure.

Audio excerpt – Scott Mitchell:

“Do you sort of stand by and believe that all the decisions being made around the restructure align with this sort of outwardly stated goals of that restructure?”

Audio excerpt – Chris Oliver-Taylor:

“Yeah, I firmly believe they are. It doesn't mean we're there yet, because as a fair say, um, I think when you're trying to drive, not even a new strategy, but an evolve strategy from within. With limited funds and limited ability to make drastic change, broadly that's good.”

SCOTT:

And he's doing this in the context of years of budget constraints. The ABC, for a long time has been trying to do a lot with less money.

ANGE:

Yeah. I mean, the ABC has been under a lot of financial pressure over the past decade or so. Their budget was cut and then it was frozen by the previous coalition government. Labor did restore the ABC's funding, but if there are all these redundancies, there's clearly still budget issues, right? What does the ABC need to do to get itself out of this position it's in?

SCOTT:

Yeah. So as you say, Ange, you know, this Labor government came to power and they promised to give the ABC an additional $22 million a year. And they said that was to restore funding that was cut. But even so, some people say that's not enough. I mean, a group of former ABC staff have have done a study that claimed that actually the ABC would need about 86 million more dollars every year to return it to where it would have been if the cuts had never begun.

So without really a bigger injection of money, ultimately, for this big generational pivot, the ABC has to find the money within the operating budget, and that just means job cuts.

And so what you've seen over the course of this restructure, as those cuts have begun, you've seen, I think, some of that optimism turn for some, even people who are proponents of of some of this digital change and some of the examples that have led to that change in atmosphere actually come from Chris Oliver-Taylor's new content division.

You know, I learned that since Chris Oliver-Taylor arrived. One example is that a TV show from Aunty Donna, which is this really renowned Australian comedy troupe with a huge online following. They had an American TV show. They had a show with the ABC in 2023 that will not be returning in 2024. And you know, in the ABC's own annual general report, they they brag about commissioning that, saying that it was a great way to get young people onto their platforms, over 25 million views, but it won't be returning.

Instead, Shaun Micallef will actually be back on ABC TV screens in 2024. And he actually left his show Mad as Hell a bit over a year ago, citing a desire to make way for younger talent.

So broadly you know, there's a situation where it could appear that the ABC is kind of in conflict with its own stated goals. It said this restructure is about chasing younger audience. But when you look at what's going on, there's a conflict in the decisions that are actually being made as you drill down.

And look, when I spoke to Chris Oliver-Taylor, he acknowledged that the slate for TV and iView shows for this year skews older than younger. But he made the point that it was a slow process. They're going to be very specific about how they draw in younger audiences, but it's not their biggest priority right now as the slight stands.

And so these kinds of decisions are beginning to turn staff on some of the things that are going on in the restructure. You know, I learned that actually been resignations, two, in fact, in Chris Oliver-Taylor's division from a team in that division that was really tasked with leading digital transformation in the content division, and they walked away in the aftermath of redundancies at the end of last year.

I think what's interesting about seeing voluntary resignations from people who colleagues describe as enthusiastic about change at the broadcaster is it shows that this is a restructure that isn't just losing people who might be frustrated at change, who might be towards the end of their careers. They're losing people who are expected to lead the organisation into the future. And that's a really interesting place for this restructure to be at only six months into it.

ANGE:

So, Scott, the ABC is starting off the year on pretty shaky footing. And I guess despite it trying to do all the right things, restructuring, looking to a digital expansion and trying to be clever with its budget, it's not exactly working. I think it's fair to say. I just wonder if there's a deeper problem here about the role of public broadcasters in this day and age in general, and kind of our expectations of what the ABC can and should be.

SCOTT:

Yeah, I mean, I think, the question is not, you know, is the ABC going to disappear? That's not going to happen. But the question is, will it have the same role in our lives? Is it going to be as present?

I think for all of us. The ABC was a huge part of our childhood, our first experiences of news. It's something that has held the Australian community together at times. And I think when we talk about the ABC, so often people focus on whether the ABC has become bias… there are questions about its impartiality or whether it's become too timid and scared after years of attacks.

But there is another question, and that's whether it will continue to reach as many Australians as it historically has. And what does that mean for our whole society and our understanding of news and information if the ABC is diminished?

It's the thing that all of these stories, whether it's Antoinette Lattouf, whether it's the restructure, Stan Grant and Nour Haydar resigning, all of them have in common that they place under threat the ABC's ability to reach more Australians. And the question now is how is the ABC going to reach those people?

It's really too early to say whether, you know, merging divisions and creating new reporting lines is going to have an effect on how it can reach people. But what we can definitely say is that because this isn't being driven by budget cuts, there is no coalition government there to take up the news headlines.

It means that the decisions being made today about which staff to let go of, how to reshape the broadcaster, those decisions, both the wins and the losses, are going to be worn by this generation of management and leadership at the ABC, And so it's going to be fascinating to see how they owned that and what the legacy of this era is for the future of the ABC.

ANGE:

Scott, thanks so much for your time.

SCOTT:

Thank you, Ange.

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ANGE:

Also in the news today,

Almost a million GP visits are expected in the coming year over prescriptions for vaping, according to a health department analysis.

Vaping reforms, which came into effect on January 1, changed vapes from consumer products to therapeutic ones, which limits their access to prescription-only pharmacy sales.

And,

Donald Trump has won the Iowa Caucus, securing his first victory in the race to become the Republican Presidential nominee for 2024.

Trump won more than 50 per cent of the vote share, and in his victory speech said he wanted to “straighten out the world” and “seal the border” of the United States.

I’m Ange McCormack, this is 7am. We’ll be back again tomorrow, with an episode looking at Trump’s win and what it means for the Presidential race.

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