The China think tank attacked by Wolverines
Jul 10, 2024 •
Margaret Simons keeps an eye on the influence of defence, foreign affairs and security communities in Canberra – and recently the story of one think tank, China Matters, caught her attention. The influential group, dedicated to bettering Australia’s understanding of China, was defunded during a time of aggressive posturing towards the superpower.
Today, Margaret Simons on why this think tank came undone, and how a crew of anti-China politicians called ‘the Wolverines’ led the attack.
The China think tank attacked by Wolverines
1288 • Jul 10, 2024
The China think tank attacked by Wolverines
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RICK:
From Schwartz Media, I’m Rick Morton and this is 7am.
There's a shadow world beneath Canberra that is fed by the defence, foreign affairs and security communities.
It's made up of advisors who are unknown to the public but who are hugely influential in how the government responds to our biggest geopolitical challenges.
Investigative journalist Margaret Simons has been keeping a close eye on this world for decades and recently, the story of one group, and one woman stood out to her.
MARGARET:
After hearing gossip about her from several different sources, I rang her up and, as nicely as I could manage, I asked her if she was a spy.
RICK:
Today, the mysterious demise of China Matters, why this influential group came undone and how a group of anti-China politicians called the Wolverines, led the attack.
That’s coming up. It’s Wednesday July 10.
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RICK:
Margaret, many of us might feel as if there really is this hidden world of spies, sort of trading state secrets in this subterranean way, especially in Canberra. But we might not know exactly what it looks like. Tell me about this group China Matters. Why did they pique your interest?
MARGARET:
Well, you know, it was a very eminent well-regarded organisation up until about 2019. It had a very eminent board at different times and there were senior Liberal Party figures on the board at different times.
Audio excerpt – News Host (ABC):
“For more, I'm joined by Linda Jacobsen from the think tank China Matters. Linda Jacobson, thank you so much for your time.”
MARGARET:
So it was founded by a Finnish woman, Australian resident and Finnish national called Linda Jacobsen, who was a China expert. She spent 20 years living in China. She was first recruited to come to Australia by the Lowy Institute. And then when she left Lowy, she founded China Matters with some others.
Audio excerpt – Linda Jacobsen:
“I think Australia has to think carefully about all of these scenarios, how is Australia going to react, those decisions need to be made now.”
MARGARET:
I think it's fair to say that China Matters was pro engagement with China. Some people think we will be at war with China within five years, or at least that that's a real possibility. But whether that's true or not, we're going to be dealing with China for a long while. It's our major trading partner, the underpinning of much of our wealth. And of course, you know, a very large and currently aggressive neighbour. So starting there, they were trying to contribute to a conversation which would allow Australia to make better, as they saw it, better policy decisions in how to deal with the relationship. So I set about to try and find out the reasons why China Matters was set upon by the Morrison government, in 2019 and 2020. And ultimately, it finally closed up shop earlier this year. I started with, you know, a genuine sense of curiosity. This looks strange. What's going on here? And so I was trying to find out why, why did this happen? Why was it set upon in this way?
RICK:
And then, of course, you have a finely attuned spidey sense for these types of stories, I think. You must have picked up on some kind of gurgling that something was going on with China Matters and then you picked that thread. What did you start to uncover?
MARGARET:
Well, there was a big change, of course, in perceptions of China. You might remember, back in John Howard's prime ministership, the mantra was that we could both have America as our main security partner, and we could also have China as our main trading partner, and that we could manage all this without having to choose.
Audio excerpt – John Howard:
“We are very desirous of having as much Chinese investment, both equity and direct investment as possible. And that is a point that I made to the Chinese leadership during my discussions.”
MARGARET:
But the pushback against China and the change in the climate began under Malcolm Turnbull's prime ministership.
Audio excerpt – Malcolm Turnbull:
“What we need to ensure is that the rise of China, which is, is happening. It's, it's nothing's going to stop that and, anytime soon is, if you like, conducted in a manner that does not disturb the security and the relative harmony of the region upon which, China's prosperity depends.”
MARGARET:
You might remember we banned Huawei from having a role in building 5G in Australia. And then there was new foreign interference legislation, which required universities, for example, to register the relationships they had with foreign researchers and foreign organisations. This was a big shake up. But I spoke to Malcolm Turnbull and he was not responsible for the campaign against China Matters. He said, I don't know what happened. I don't know what went wrong. Don't ask me.
So when he left the prime ministership and Scott Morrison took over, China Matters was still flying high. And indeed, in 2018, they did a study tour of China. And people like Julian Leeser were on that, Richard Marles, who's now, of course, minister for defence, all of whom later on provided testimonials to China Matters website saying how valuable this was. That was September 2018, that the end of the golden era, as it turned out.
RICK:
Coming up after the break – a group of anti-China politicians known as “the Wolverines” take on China Matters.
RICK:
Margaret, China Matters was this well regarded organisation giving advice on China, and it was pro-engagement which didn’t go down well with some politicians in Canberra. Tell me about the Wolverines.
Audio excerpt – News Host:
“Is it time to give up the wolverine theatrics that you’re a part of with other members of Parliament?”
Audio excerpt – Andrew Hastie:
“Kieran, the Wolverines were established for a very good purpose.”
MARGARET:
The Wolverines were a group that spanned Labor and the Coalition. But they were established to speak up against China's aggression and interference, or attempted interference, in Australian politics.
Audio excerpt – Andrew Hastie:
“To undergird the bipartisan support for a strong Australian foreign policy that stands up for our national interest and our values.”
MARGARET:
They, at one stage, and I think they've stopped doing this, put claw marks on their doors to sort of signal membership of this group. And the name Wolverines was a reference to a 1994 movie, which I confess, I didn't watch as part of my research. It's got Patrick Swayze in it and Charlie Sheen. The movie Red Dawn, in which, I gather, high school football stars thwart a Soviet invasion of the United States.
RICK: (laughs)
MARGARET:
Two of the most prominent people among the Wolverines on the Coalition side were Senators Andrew Hastie and James Patterson. And they were also the names that were most frequently mentioned to me as the people behind the attacks on China Matters.
RICK:
And China Matters actually invited two of the Wolverines to China.
MARGARET:
They did! And they agreed to go. But then when they put in for visas for the Wolverines, for Senators Hastie and Patterson, the Chinese embassy indicated that it wasn't a convenient time for those particular gentlemen to visit. So that was embarrassing for everyone because the news leaked.
RICK:
And then in 2019-2020 China Matters is defunded by the Morrison government and you start looking into why. And you come across this name that keeps coming up. A public servant, of Chinese background.
MARGARET:
Yes, Yun Jiang. People may remember, when she appeared before a Senate committee and Senator Eric Abetz, also a Wolverine, was on that committee, and he demanded of Yun Jiang and another Chinese Australian who was appearing with her that they condemned the Communist Party of China.
Audio excerpt – Eric Abetz:
“Can I ask each of the three witnesses to very briefly tell me whether they are willing to unconditionally condemn the Communist, the Chinese Communist Party dictatorship?”
MARGARET:
Before they could, sort of, say what they had to say to the Senate committee.
Audio excerpt – News Reporter:
“Critics have accused him of prejudice and race baiting, and say that it's part of a concerning trend in rhetoric about China...”
MARGARET:
This is a request that wasn't made of any of the Caucasian people appearing before that Senate committee. There was quite an outcry at the time. Abetz was widely condemned, Scott Morrison said the only pledge anybody should have to make is the one they make when they get citizenship, which is loyalty to Australia, obviously. So there was quite a storm about that at the time. Anyway, Yun Jiang was the person at the centre of that controversy. But in this case, many years later, and indeed after the main attacks on China Matters, she got a fellowship that was in partnership with China Matters and did some research in China as a result of that fellowship. When I started asking questions around this strange community, her name was raised with me. And as I say, there's a lot of gossip in this land. As somebody who was a person under suspicion, I was told, that there had been an ASIO investigation into her, nobody knew the result of that investigation, well, nobody I spoke to, in any case. But it was suggested to me that that was one of the “security concerns”, put those words in inverted commas, which was the reason, part of the reason, for the attacks on China Matters and why it was denied DGR status.
RICK:
Did you manage to track her down?
MARGARET:
I did. Yes. After hearing gossip about her from several different sources, I rang her up and, as nicely as I could manage, I asked her if she was a spy.
RICK:
I'm laughing because I'm nervous. Because I know that that’s where this has got to in this country, right?
MARGARET:
Yeah. Not a conversation that I expect to have very often, I have to say. All I can say is that if she is a person advancing foreign interference or indeed a spy, she's got very strange spycraft, because she spoke to me about these suspicions very openly and consented to have the material that's in my article published, which is, you know, strange indeed.
Audio excerpt – Yun Jiang:
“Thank you, thank you. Thank you for the introduction and so great to see everyone here.”
MARGARET:
I should also say that Yun Jiang, apart from being a public servant, she's also an academic. You know, she's participated in public forums, democratic forums.
Audio excerpt – Yun Jiang:
“This was the thinking behind the questioning during my Senate hearing experience, where three Australians of Chinese background were asked to condemn the Chinese Communist Party for no reason other than they have a Chinese background.”
RICK:
Right, it all seems to come back to these “security concerns” in inverted commas as you say, you know, what were those concerns exactly?
MARGARET:
I mean, the government is perfectly entitled to fund or not to fund organisations, of course. Not every organisation that would like to be funded gets funding. And when I was exploring why, I was told, I've got three main sources for this, but the first one told me it was nothing to do with the quality of the work, nothing to do with any individuals, no suggestion they were taking money from Beijing or anything of that sort, but nevertheless that it was a “security concern”. Now, I squeezed hard on this particular lemon, and didn't get much clarity about what it was. As I said, they made it clear there was no suggestion they were in the pay of Beijing, or that there was any particular individual who was a problem. Rather, the “security concern” was something about the way they operated. Something about the business model. This is really unclear because how did they operate? Well, they took government funding up until 2019-2020 and provided briefings and reports and so on in return for that. They also got some funding from private businesses who had interests in China, but that was all pretty transparent. So, yeah, what was this “security concern”? Well, as far as I can tell, it seems to be the meetings and the study tours and the fact that people, which included parliamentarians and city bureaucrats and business people, might meet members of the Communist Party and might be subject to people who were actively trying to interfere or influence Australian politics. That seems to be it. The security concerns, or perceived security concerns, I described them in the article as sort of columns of smoke. When I actually tried to grasp at them, and I interviewed a number of people including Peter Carlisle, who's currently the chair of the parliamentary committee that oversees the security services, there isn’t really anything definite there, it seems to me. So I'm not convinced, basically.
RICK:
At the end of all of this, I mean you set out to partially, I guess, explore this spooky underground network of, you know, spies and the national security apparatus and of course discovered more columns of smoke, I guess. Does it tell you anything about the way that, you know, these forces are shaping our politics as they currently stand?
MARGARET:
Well, in this episode, and I'm not going to suggest that this is represented, one hopes it's not representative of a whole lot, in this episode, It seems to me that we've jumped at shadows and that a source of an alternative point of view on China, I'm not saying you have to agree with it, it should be up for criticism like anything else, but it's also an alternative argument, an alternative point of view, was made non-viable by the deliberate actions of government.
With the death of China Matters, we are still incredibly thin for real depth of understanding of China in the foreign policy and defence community. There's something worryingly autocratic about that, particularly given that we are supposed to be combating an autocratic China.
RICK:
Margaret Simons, I love your work, I love your journalism. Thank you so much for joining us.
MARGARET:
Thank you, Rick.
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RICK:
Also in the news...
Minister for Indigenous Australians Linda Burney has said that only long term solutions can solve the ongoing violence and unrest in Alice Springs.
Her comments come as police instituted a snap three day curfew after off-duty police officers were allegedly assaulted over the weekend.
Police are enforcing the lockdown using new powers given to them in May, in a bid to stop youth crime in the city.
Burney said that while the curfew is important, quote “you can’t arrest your way out of this” and the community and government need to work together.
And,
A new anti-semitism envoy will work with the government to address the increasing targeting of Jewish people in Australia after October 7.
Standing outside the Jewish Museum in Sydney, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said the envoy would help increase social cohesion in Australia, and that a special envoy on Islamophobia will also soon be appointed.
The new role was welcomed by the Coalition and the Executive Council of Australian Jewry. The Jewish Council of Australia, however, expressed concern that the anti-semitism envoy might risk inflaming divisions by failing to distinguish between Jewishness and support for Israel.
That’s all for today. I’m Rick Morton, this is 7am. See you tomorrow.
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There's a shadow world beneath Canberra, fed by the defence, foreign affairs and security communities, and it is hugely influential in how the government responds to our biggest geopolitical challenges.
Margaret Simons has spent decades keeping a close eye on this world. Recently, the story of one think tank, China Matters, caught her attention.
The group, dedicated to bettering Australia’s understanding of China, was defunded during a time of aggressive posturing towards the superpower and talk of war.
Today, investigative journalist and contributor to The Monthly Margaret Simons on why this influential think tank came undone, and how a crew of anti-China politicians called the ‘Wolverines’ led the attack.
Guest: Investigative journalist and contributor to The Monthly Margaret Simons
7am is a daily show from Schwartz Media and The Saturday Paper.
It’s produced by Kara Jensen-Mackinnon, Cheyne Anderson and Zoltan Fesco.
Our senior producer is Chris Dengate. Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow.
Sarah McVeigh is our head of audio. Erik Jensen is our editor-in-chief.
Mixing by Travis Evans and Atticus Bastow.
Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio.
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