RUBY:

From Schwartz Media I’m Ruby Jones this is 7am.

The election of Joe Biden has kickstarted global debate over the need to take serious action to combat climate change.

But here in Australia, the Prime Minister Scott Morrison is caught between the global mood and more conservative elements of his own government.

Climate policy tensions aren’t just playing out in the Coalition though - the Labor party is also fractured on the issue.

Today, The Saturday Paper’s Chief Political Correspondent, Karen Middleton, on how the Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition are grappling with climate policy.

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RUBY:

Karen, let’s start with the Coalition. There are Pro-coal members of the government who have been applying pressure on Scott Morrison. So tell how has that been playing out?

KAREN:

Yes, that's right. In particular, the Nationals are very keen to be seen to be supporting the fossil fuel industry and particularly the coal industry. We have seen Scott Morrison do that, too. Of course, he famously came into parliament with a lump of coal in his hand

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“This is coal - don’t be afraid! Don’t be scared! Won’t hurt you!”

KAREN:

And said, don't be afraid of this, brandishing it at the opposition.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“It’s coal! It was dug up…”

KAREN:

But really, the driving force behind action on coal has been the Nationals. And in the past week or so, we've seen a little parade of nationals going into the Labor held seat of Hunter in the Hunter Valley in New South Wales, talking up their desire for a greater effort in coal fired power.

Archival Tape -- Matt Canavan:

“We should be using Hunter Valley coal to protect the environment and create jobs here in Australia.”

KAREN:

We saw the Queensland Nationals senator Matt Canavan, who’s formally the resources minister turning up there in Hunter, saying that he thought that the federal government should be using the constitutional power, that it has a defence power to build a coal fired power station in that seat.

Archival Tape -- Matt Canavan:

“I think we should use our defence powers as we did to build Snowy Hydro and build a coal fired power station in the Hunter Valley here using the world’s best thermal coal…”

KAREN:

Michael McCormack, the leader of the Nationals, was less vociferous on the point about a power station, but was certainly talking up his advocacy for coal and criticising his opponents when he visited the Hunter around about the same time last week.

Archival Tape -- Michael McCormack:

“Coal’s suffering - we’ll always, as Nationals, support the coal industry…”

RUBY:

So Karen, is this pressure from various Nationals proving effective? You point out that Scott Morrison brandished that lump of coal in Parliament a few years ago but lately we’ve heard a lot more from him about a gas-led recovery. So is that still the path that he seems to be pushing for?

KAREN:

Yes that’s right. The prime minister is still focussed on what he's calling a gas led recovery.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“Get more gas, more often, and more reliably.”

KAREN:

He's been trying to encourage the gas industry to invest more and back in the economy as it tries to recover from the pandemic.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“By resetting our east coast gas market, unlocking additional gas to drive recovering, paving the way ultimately for a world leading Australian gas hub…”

KAREN:

So he's been suggesting that gas is a way that the economy can recover.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“You get more gas into the system, it drives down prices.”

KAREN:

There's been a controversial Narrabri gas project that's seen a lot of debate and discussion that has now been approved at the federal level at...that's in the north west of New South Wales, and despite some opposition from indigenous leaders and farmers in the area, the federal government is now given the environmental approvals for that.

RUBY:

Mmmhmm ok. And Karen, Scott Morrison gave a speech alongside the G20 summit recently and there did seem to be a slight shift in the way that he was talking about climate change. Can you tell me what you’re noticing?

KAREN:

We did see a change in rhetoric from our own prime minister who started talking about saving the planet and the importance of sustainable energy

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“As g20 members, we all have important responsibilities. To the present but also to the future.”

KAREN:

Which was a pretty noticeable rhetorical shift from the kinds of language we've heard from him before and from that day in the parliament with the lump of coal.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“We must all take action to safeguard our planet for our peoples and for the generations to come.”

KAREN:

So you are seeing now Scott Morrison trying to edge away from the hard conservative position in favour of fossil fuels and sort of have to have two bob each way be seen to be advocating for action on climate change, to meet the world where it's going, but not to alienate his own constituency, particularly on the conservative side of politics at home.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“Carbon capture and storage, green steel and aluminum. These can make massive inroads into reducing emissions not just here in Australia, taking care of our commitments, but globally as well.”

RUBY:

So what is motivating this change Karen? Is it all about the US election, and Joe Biden?

KAREN:

Well, the impetus for this change does seem to have been the election of Joe Biden, who's been very strong in favour of action on climate change.

Archival Tape -- Joe Biden:

“For the first time ever the US will have a full time climate leader participating in ministerial level meetings, and that’s a fancy way of saying they’ll have a seat at every table around the world.”

KAREN:

He's now appointed John Kerry to be his envoy on climate change around the world. And this is being seen as the impetus for the world to shift.

Archival Tape -- Joe Biden:

“Let me be clear. I don’t for a minute underestimate the difficulties of meeting my bold commitments to fighting climate change. But at the same time no one should underestimate my determination to do just that.”

KAREN:

But the political pressure is probably greater on Anthony Albanese in the Labour side at the moment than it is on Scott Morrison.

And the Labour leader is under pressure to make sure he doesn't forget the working people that are supporters of Labour, particularly miners in the fossil fuel industry.

So both sides of politics are really trying to find a middle ground in terms of energy and climate change these days, the liberals are having to shift, as I said, back to the centre and be seen to be acknowledging the global mood in terms of action on climate change.

But it is a difficult political issue to manage for both of them. And it's been a diabolical political issue in Australia for more than a decade, and it's claimed leaders on both sides of politics as a result.

RUBY:

We’ll be back in a moment.

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RUBY:

Karen, let's talk more about how climate policy is playing out within Labor. It all seemed to start when Joel Fitzgibbon quit the Labor frontbench and criticised Anthony Albanese. Can you tell me about what’s happened since then?

KAREN:

Well, Joel Fitzgibbon and Anthony Albanese have been at loggerheads on the way Labour is portraying its climate and energy policy.

The reason Joel Fitzgibbon cares so much is he represents the Hunter Valley, where there are a lot of coal mining workers. And so it's a politically existential issue for him. He nearly lost his seat over this issue at last year's federal election, and he wants to make sure that Labor doesn't lose that seat in future.

Archival Tape -- Joel Fitzgibbon:

“I wasn’t prepared to allow the cheesecloth brigade in the caucus to use Biden’s win to argue for even more ambitious climate change policy…”

KAREN:

Anthony Albanese insists that they are on the same page in terms of the policy substance and that, in fact, everything that's been said publicly lately accords with Labour's policy, which is to make sure that the mining industry is looked after, particularly the people working in it, as we transition away from fossil fuels.

Archival Tape -- Anthony Albanese:

“If you’ve got a 50% renewable energy target, by definition there’s 50% coming from fossil fuels…”

KAREN:

Now, Joel Fitzgibbon has told people privately for some time that Anthony Albanese promised him after the last election that he would make sure he spoke out in favour of coal mine workers and that he would advocate for them quite enthusiastically, that he would turn up at a coal mine and do so from there. Fitzgibbon, after losing his frontbench position, did a remarkable number of interviews within one 24 hour period.

Archival Tape -- Reporter:

“He’s on the line - the Labor MP for The Hunter, Joel Fitzgibbon, good morning…”

Archival Tape -- Reporter:

“Joel Fitzgibbon joins us in our Parliament house studios…”

Archival Tape -- Reporter:

“Labor MP Joel Fitzgibbon joins me now from Canberra…”

KAREN:

Advocating not only for more stridency on energy policy, but also that the climate change spokesperson for Labour, Mark Butler, be removed from his portfolio. Now, that was an interesting call. And he made it over and over and over.

Archival Tape -- Joel Fitzgibbon:

“I don’t want to show any level of disrespect for Mark, but he has been that portfolio for 7 years-…
… you know Mark can go to another senior portfolio, he’s a very smart guy, there are plenty of things he could do, but we need a new advocate bringing a fresh face and a fresh approach…”

KAREN:

And in a sense, that puts Anthony Albanese in a very difficult position, because if Albanese was to sack Mark Butler, his constituency on the left of the party, that advocates for more climate change would see that as him selling out. But if he was to dig in and not do what Fitzgibbon is asking for, then the right of the party could accuse him of not listening to advice.

So he's in a difficult spot. And I suspect that Fitzgibbon knows that, which does beg the question, what is his real objective? Is it on climate change policy and energy, or is it really just to put pressure on Anthony Albanese so much so that he faces a challenge?

RUBY:

And does this pose a serious threat to Albanese's leadership, in your opinion?

KAREN:

Not right at the moment, but I think it could in the future.

There are no challenges at the moment. Much as Joel Fitzgibbon might think that he's one, nobody sees him as a future leader of the party. But that doesn't mean he can't make trouble. There are other candidates who fancy themselves a chance at the leadership in the future, but none of them want it now, which tells you that they think that they're not likely to win the next election. So why would you want to grab the leadership ahead of an election defeat?

The likes of Tanya Plibersek, Richard Marles, Jim Chalmers, Chris Bowen, Tony Burke, a whole lot of people on the Labour side would see themselves as potential future leaders, but none of them are ready to step up at the moment.

However, what we do know from politics, from years, from decades of these kinds of stoushes is that once there is an expression of public unhappiness with a leader, if it's repeated and repeated and there isn't something that acts as a circuit breaker, it becomes a dangerous situation and eventually somebody does step up.

And I think that's the risk for Anthony Albanese. He wouldn't want Joel Fitzgibbon to continue to make noise with either the objective of changing his policy or of changing the leader. Neither one is going to be good for Anthony Albanese heading into the next federal election when, as they say, disunity is death.

RUBY:

Hmm. And Karen, as you mentioned earlier, we've seen climate change policy destroy a succession of prime ministers on both sides of politics now. So how well equipped do you think both Albanese and Morrion are, as the leaders of their respective parties, to navigate this?

KAREN:

I think it's a difficult political issue for both leaders. I think it's a more dangerous issue in a personal sense for Anthony Albanese, simply because there is also this dissatisfaction or unrest with his performance. People have not written him off on the Labour side. They are not ready to replace him, it is not at that stage by any stretch. It's certainly salvageable by him. But it's always dangerous when people start to mutter about whether the leader is the right person for the job. And so this issue could become a vehicle for more of that unhappiness. That's why it's dangerous for Anthony Albanese.

On the Coalition side, Scott Morrison's popularity is high. There is no suggestion that it's a leadership threat to him, not in any sense. In fact, he's got incredibly high popularity ratings, but he has to navigate the complexities of an issue that the coalition has used politically for a very long time. And he can no longer afford to use it that way, because while the world was also lagging on climate change action, it was convenient for the federal coalition to use it as a political weapon against Labour.

And I think there's momentum from the general public in Australia - we had a terrible summer last summer, as we all know, of bushfires, record heat and terrible drought. We're seeing very tumultuous weather conditions. There's a lot of talk and focus on climate change. I don't think it's feasible anymore for climate change to be used as the blunt instrument that it has been on the coalition side of politics. And that is the challenge for Scott Morrison - he now has to remake himself without being seen to totally abandon his domestic constituency.

And we do know that in the past, even popular leaders have found themselves running foul of this issue because they played the politics wrong. So that's something that Scott Morrison does need to watch.

RUBY:

Karen, thank you so much for your time today.

KAREN:

Thanks, Ruby.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today —

New data shows that the Australian economy grew 3 point 3 percent in the September quarter.

The latest figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics reflect an increase in spending as Covid-19 restrictions were eased.

However annual growth is still negative and the economy is 3 point 8 percent smaller than the same time last year.

And the NSW government has announced significant changes to state COVID-19 restrictions, to come into effect from next Monday. The easing of restrictions means capacity at restaurants, bars, churches and cafes will double, and nightclubs will reopen.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am. See ya tomorrow.