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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.

There’s dissent in Labor’s ranks.

Australia’s AUKUS deal was supposed to have unanimous support, but it has thrown up unexpected challenges for the Labor government - with senior party figures breaking ranks to criticise its scope, price and impact on our relationships.

So will there be a showdown over the $368 billion plan? And if so - how will the prime minister handle it?

Today - columnist for The Saturday Paper, Paul Bongiorno - on the increasing political cost of the AUKUS deal.

It’s Friday, March 24.

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RUBY:

Paul, When we spoke last week, there was almost unanimous approval for the AUKUS submarine deal on both the Labor and the Coalition side of politics. But this week things have changed. There's been some rumblings inside the Labor Party and it seems like perhaps not everyone actually is happy. So tell me a bit about this discontent and where it's coming from.

PAUL:

Ruby I think what I can tell you at the outset is that Paul Keating's torpedoes launched at AUKUS at the National Press Club last week. Well, they've certainly begun hitting their targets in the Labor Party. We saw at the weekend the Enmore branch, which is in the middle of Anthony Albanese’s own electorate in Sydney, and it passed a motion condemning AUKUS and down in Port Kembla. They voted against their area being used as a nuclear submarine base, even though it was going to pump $10 billion into the area. And this questioning, concerns, opposition even reached the parliamentary Labor Party at its meeting on Tuesday. There were two questions to the prime minister, one about how they were going to meet the mammoth cost and the other about Australian sovereignty. Well, the prime minister assured his backbenchers that everything would be dealt with prudently and he said, according to the official briefing, when the Australian flag is on any piece of equipment, Australia is in control. But these sorts of assurances didn't stop concerns going onto the floor of Parliament itself.

Archival tape -- Josh Wilson:

“But it should be a statement of the obvious to say that with an undertaking of this scale, complexity, cost and duration, there remain considerable risks and uncertainty.”

PAUL:

Another backbencher, Josh Wilson, who's the member for Fremantle, which ironically Fremantle on the West Coast, is the major port slated for the nuclear submarines to be housed there. And he told Parliament that he wasn't convinced that nuclear submarines are the only or best answer for our strategic needs. And he says no one has solved the problems of what to do with the nuclear waste.

Archival tape -- Josh Wilson:

“We haven't yet managed a storage solution for low level waste. After 40 years and more than $50 million, we haven't yet commenced a proper process for the storage of intermediate level waste. Now we are taking on the challenge of safely disposing high level waste, a problem no country has solved.”

PAUL:

He said it was worth noting, and I'd have to say I was surprised when I heard this, that the United Kingdom has 13 out-of-service nuclear submarines that for decades have awaited de-fuelling and decommissioning.

RUBY:

And it is relatively rare, Paul, to hear Labor members speak critically of the party line. So what is fuelling this and can you tell me more about the specific criticisms of the AUKUS deal?

PAUL:

Yes, Ruby, it's gone to some quite senior members of the Labor Party besides Paul Keating, Labor's longest serving Foreign Minister, Gareth Evans. He was the Foreign Minister in the Hawke Keating governments, and Bob Carr, who was foreign minister in the Rudd and Gillard governments both raised concerns. Evans even wrote an opinion piece in The Guardian earlier in the week where he said whether you love Paul Keating or loathe him, he has raised questions which, quote, are hugely important for Australia's future and demand much more compelling answers than we have so far received from government ministers, past and present. You might say ouch.

Meanwhile, Bob Carr was at another event in Albanese's electorate. The Marrickville Peace Committee had a meeting on the weekend. Carr was a panellist along with others and he said there was an alternative to AUKUS, and he noted that the tone of the national security debate had changed over the past eight years when what he calls China panic had taken hold. Well, everything that Evans and Carr is saying goes against the assurances of Defence Minister Richard Marles.

Archival tape -- Richard Marles:

“And I want to make it really clear that the moment that there is a flag on the first of those Virginia class submarines in the early 2030’s is the moment that submarine will be under the complete control of the Australian Government of the day.”

PAUL:

On the weekend. He gave assurances that Australia wouldn't be automatically dragged into any war between America and China over Taiwan.

Archival tape -- David Speers:

“Has Australia given the United States any sort of commitment, explicitly implicitly, that we will be there in the event of a conflict over Taiwan?”

Archival tape -- Richard Marles:

“The answer to that is of course not. Of course not.”

PAUL:

He said. Absolutely not. When asked on insiders if we were only given the nuclear Virginia class submarines as a quid pro quo for such an eventuality.

RUBY:

Okay. So criticism seems to be coming mostly from former Labor leaders and party elders, but the majority of the current leadership, especially the cabinet, they are united in support of AUKUS. So do you think that there is likely to be some sort of showdown with this kind of simmering discontent in some sections of the party? And if that happens, how is Anthony Albanese going to navigate it?

PAUL:

Well, there could be. There does seem to be, you know, mounting concern and dissent. And we've got the Labor Party national conference in Brisbane in August. This conference is an opportunity for branch delegates and union delegates to have their say on party policy. In fact, they're actually supposed to set party policy. The Albanese Government's national security credentials are sure to face intense scrutiny, if not outright opposition there. You know Ruby, it's the first national conference in five years and the first in 12 years since the party was last in government. There's such fraught affairs that the parliamentary party tries to avoid having them as much as it can. And they get particularly antsy when the issue of the nuclear fuel cycle is raised. I remember back in the early days of the Hawke government, they were anti uranium mining protesters, turned up at a at the Canberra conference, so much so that the party moved subsequent conferences down to Hobart, hoping that Bass Strait would be something of a moat to dissuade hordes of protesters from coming down to Hobart. Well, this could be something of a guide of what could happen at this year's Brisbane conference, and it'll be a test of Anthony Albanese's guile as a factional warrior. But people close to the prime minister are confident that the issue can be managed. They even put a nice gloss on it by saying, you know, all of this dissent is, after all, just democratic debate of a very serious issue. And they don't believe that there will be a move to scuttle AUKUS or even if such a motion will come onto the floor of the conference.

Well, AUKUS, as we're seeing, is a challenge for the Labor government, but it's also a challenge for Opposition Leader Peter Dutton.

RUBY:

We'll be back in a moment.

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RUBY:

So, Paul, the challenges of navigating the AUKUS deal, they aren't limited to the Labor Party. The Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, He's also had to contend with some divided opinions. He's said that the Opposition are giving full support to the deal. But that hasn't stopped some from within his party from firing a few shots on the deal. So how is Dutton walking the line there?

PAUL:

Well, he's maintaining bipartisan solidarity with Albanese, but his shadow Minister for Defence, Andrew Hastie. When news came out about what was going on in the Labor Party room meeting while he called a doorstop to query whether Labor had the ability to sustain a long term commitment to deliver AUKUS. And you know, that's despite the fact that one of his colleagues, the backbencher James Stephens from Adelaide, who holds the seat that Christopher Pyne used to represent, well, he raised doubts in Parliament that any of the submarines would be built in his home town no matter who's in power. But I have to say Dutton being in lockstep with Albanese, well, it didn't win him any reprieve when the Parliament sat this week.

RUBY:

What happened in Parliament, Paul? Did things get particularly heated?

PAUL:

Ruby, I think we have to remember that it's only two weeks out from the Aston by-election and this is, you know, heating up the temperature somewhat. The Liberals, as they have been doing since the by-election was called, have been hammering the cost of living at every question time.

Archival tape -- Peter Dutton:

“Will the Prime Minister accept responsibility and admit he has broken his promise to provide cheaper mortgages and to cut power bills…”

PAUL:

Dutton regularly accuses Albanese of breaking his promises. And when Question Time began just after 2:00 and as Albanese began answering, Dutton said “Does your word mean anything at all?”

Archival tape -- Anthony Albanese:

“Mr Speaker, he's at it again! He's at it again. He tries…he was supposed to be Nice Peter, but he can't survive to five past two without resorting to the old boofhead…”

PAUL:

I have to tell you, Ruby, the exchange was mild compared to the intensity generated when Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus took a pre-arranged question, asking why it's important to condemn public displays of right wing extremism and Nazi symbolism. That was a reference to last weekend's anti-trans rally in Melbourne, which you might recall was disrupted by mask wearing Nazi saluting goons.

Archival tape -- Mark Dreyfus:

“These are markers of some of the darkest days in the world's history of ghettos of deportations and mass murder that touched my own family.”

PAUL:

Dreyfus reminded Parliament his own family had suffered at the hands of the Nazis in World War Two. He praised the Victorian Government's swift condemnation and plans to outlaw displays of the Nazi salute. Many even praised John Pesutto, the Liberal leader in Victoria.

Archival tape -- Mark Dreyfus:

“The Leader of the Opposition is the most senior Liberal in Australia. Moira Deeming is one of his own and he's been silent and he's done nothing.”

PAUL:

Pesutto is planning to expel from the parliamentary party room there. Moira Deeming She was a speaker and an organiser of the rally.

Archival tape -- Mark Dreyfus:

“But what have we had from those opposite in particular their leader? Complete silence. Mr. Speaker, we all know that bigotry and hatred breed in silence.”

PAUL:

In something of an unusual move, Dutton was given leave by the Speaker to respond immediately to this attack. The Opposition Leader said he'd support any legislation banning the Nazi salute and pointed to his record condemning anti-Semitism.

Archival tape -- Peter Dutton:

“I find the response today to be quite remarkable, over the top, Mr. Speaker, to use to political advantage this issue. I've been in this place for.”

PAUL:

Look, it certainly stung the Liberals - one seasoned Coalition MP told me that the tactic would only have been used if Albanese gave it the green light, and he said it convinced him that Albanese was a gutter rat quote When it comes to politics. I have to say though, there were no apologies from senior Labor strategists. They say Dutton, when he was in government, was relentless, hanging on Albanese over every criminal allegation or conviction directed at the militant CFMEU. Even though Albanese one of the first things he did as Labor leader and wants to expel John Setka, the union boss from the Labor Party.

RUBY:

These are certainly very serious allegations being made here, Paul, over these pretty ugly events in Victoria and, politicising this sort of thing even further, is a pretty dangerous road to go down. But of course, it's coming all in the context of the upcoming Aston by-election where the Liberal Party are trying to hold onto the seat that was vacated by Alan Tudge. So how much of what we're hearing here is political manoeuvring ahead of next week's by-election?

PAUL:

Well, Ruby, I'd say most of it, if not all of it, and I think the Dreyfus outburst as a bit of hardball politics worked. The attack featured on ABC and commercial radio bulletins in Melbourne and across the country with the emphasis on the Dreyfuss accusation and Dutton's response is something of an afterthought. In all the reporting, though, nowhere has the Liberal leader condemned the right wing extremism of Deeming, as identified by Pesutto, as worthy of expulsion from the party. And I have to say the simple explanation for that is that deeming belongs to the conservative faction of the party in Victoria. That's crucial to Dutton's leadership in Canberra. Labor clearly sees Dutton as its secret weapon in the by-election and maybe the way it will break the century old precedent of governments not winning seats from oppositions in contests like this. Labor says the by-election is the voters chance to send a message to the Liberals instead of the voters being able to send a message to the government on cost of living. And the message is they want the Liberal Party to do better than have Peter Dutton as its leader.

RUBY:

It's never great for a political leader, is it? If your opponents see you personally as the biggest and best target. So if that strategy succeeds and Labor can win Aston, what would that mean for Dutton and his political fortunes?

PAUL:

Well, you'd have to say it'd be devastating for him. It would be a devastating blow to his credibility. It would confirm the fears already in the parliamentary Liberal Party in Canberra that Dutton is a vote loser and not a vote magnet. I think this is one of the reasons why the Labor Party is going so hard in the by-election and even if the Liberals just manage to hang on, this will be seen as something of a rebuff because the seat of Aston has, up until the last election being rock solid with a double digit majority to the Liberal Party.

RUBY:

Paul, thank you so much for your time.

PAUL:

Thank you Ruby, bye.

RUBY:

Also in Canberra yesterday

Archival tape -- Anthony Albanese:

“This is a modest request. I say to Australia: Don't miss it. Don't miss it.”

RUBY:

The Prime Minister Anthony Albanese announced the question that will be put to Australians in a referendum later this year.

Archival tape -- Anthony Albanese:

“The question that Australians will be asked at this year's referendum is a very simple one. It will read, a proposed law to alter the Constitution to recognise the first peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander voice. Do you approve of this proposed alteration? That’s the question before the Australian people. Nothing more, but nothing less.”

RUBY:

The provisions are: that there shall be a body to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander Voice.

That Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. And that the Parliament shall have the power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Voice, including its composition, function, powers and procedures.

Archival tape -- Linda Burnie:

“Australians can be confident that the work has been done to ensure this is a voice that works. A voice that works. A voice that will make practical difference. A voice that will work for you. And so today, the starter’s gun has been fired.”

RUBY:

Surrounded by members of the Referendum Working Group, Albanese made a plea to Australians to embrace the Yes vote.

Archival tape -- Anthony Albanese:

“We feel - certainly I feel as the prime minister - an incredible responsibility to make a difference. There's a whole lot of things that we do in this place that no one will remember in a year's time or a days time. This matters.”

RUBY:

The question will be introduced into parliament next week, and a referendum is expected to be held in October or November this year.

We’ll continue our coverage of the voice to Parliament on 7am in the coming weeks.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today,

Independent Senator Lidia Thorpe was filmed being tackled by police after attempting to protest Anti-trans activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull.

Keen-Minshull was appearing alongside Pauline Hanson and Malcolm Roberts outside Parliament House in Canberra, as part of a small rally against the rights of trans people.

AND

Former British PM Boris Johnson could be formally sanctioned over misleading parliament, after an appearance at an inquiry into the parties held at various government offices during COVID lockdowns – including the prime minister’s residence.

During his evidence, Johnson attempted to claim that parties held at 10 Downing street, with alcohol and little social distancing, had been “necessary” for work purposes.

7am is a daily show from The Monthly and The Saturday Paper.

It’s produced by Kara Jensen-Mackinnon, Zoltan Fecso, Cheyne Anderson, and James Milsom.

Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow. Our editor is Scott Mitchell.

Sarah McVeigh is our Head of Audio, and Erik Jensen is our editor-in-chief.

Mixing this week by Laura Hancock, Andy Elston, and Atticus Bastow.

Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am see you tomorrow.

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