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DANIEL:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Daniel James. This is 7am.

One of the first things David Crisafulli did when he became Premier of Queensland was order that truth telling across the state was to stop immediately.

The Truth-telling and Healing Inquiry, which was launched earlier, this year was examining the impacts of colonisation on First Nations people.

Work was underway, with the inquiry already hearing from witnesses. But when the new premier ordered it to stop he did it in a press conference without talking to the man running the process.

Today, Chairman of The Truth-telling and Healing Inquiry Joshua Creamer, on David Crissafuli’s decision and the truth that will never be heard.

It’s Tuesday, November 5.

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DANIEL:

Joshua, thanks for speaking with me. How did you first hear that the government was killing the Truth-telling and Healing Inquiry?

JOSHUA:

One of my team called me and said there'd been a press conference and apparently there's some things said about us, and so that's how we found out. No advance warning and no communication since. So this is obviously, you know, three or four days after the election, prior to any ministry being established. At that stage, it was just the interim ministry of the premier and the deputy premier.

DANIEL:

So it was kind of like the first order of business for the new government, in a way?

JOSHUA:

Yeah look, I think, as far as I know, it's the first announcement they made post-election. Bringing an end to the inquiry was the first announcement they made.

DANIEL:

One of the commitments the premier made was to shut the inquiry down in a respectful and decent way. Did he follow through with that promise?

JOSHUA:

No, and I think that's what a lot of people are concerned about as well. People across the community, I'm not just talking about indigenous communities, I'm talking about people across the community generally, are really disappointed that the premier could use those words but then seem to be acting entirely inconsistent with that. Many of us would have thought a respectful and decent way would at least be informing my office, understanding the work that we were undertaking, because we are working quite embedded in a number of communities at the moment, and really understanding what it would take to close the inquiry in a way that is respectful and decent.

DANIEL:

The Truth-telling and Healing Inquiry started earlier this year, but work to get to that point stretches back far longer. So how long have mob in Queensland been working towards an inquiry like this?

JOSHUA:

Look, I'm pretty lucky with my work. Before I took this role, I worked on a number of significant cases looking at Queensland's history, things like the Palm Island case which followed the death of Mulrunji Doomadgee. I’ve worked on the Stolen Generations case and I've worked on a lot of native title cases and all those cases look at our history. And there has been right from the earliest stages of, you know, the 1830s, I guess when impacts started to occur here in Queensland, 1830s, right up to the 1850s, there has been this advocacy by Indigenous people and non-Indigenous people for a true accounting of how we've been treated and a true accounting of history.

DANIEL:

So we get to June of this year and the inquiry starts its work. What exactly was the inquiry doing? Can you talk about what was underway?

JOSHUA:

Yeah, I can. The inquiry focuses on three phases of work, and the first phase was really to hear evidence from people with lived experience, a large focus of that being on elders. Lived experience and the impact that from them of growing up in missions and reserves under what we call the protection era here in Queensland. We had our first block of hearings and we were preparing for our second and third block of hearings in two communities just in the greater south-east Queensland. And we'd actually requested submissions from 13 government departments. We had a truth telling session, where we had six director generals and the police commissioner come and give evidence and that was on the historical impacts, but also what are the current barriers to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and the socio-economic conditions now?

DANIEL:

You mentioned that some of the witnesses were talking about the lived experience. Can you tell me about those witnesses and what stories they shared with the inquiry?

JOSHUA:

The lived experience witnesses who gave evidence in September primarily talked about their experience growing up in missions. We heard from people who'd been abused, sexually abused and physically abused in missions, we'd heard from people who'd been sent out to work for little or no wages under the stolen wages regime, and we also heard of the history of families who were really brutalised in those early stages of colonisation before ending up in missions in northern Queensland. And so, you know, if I can say, that evidence is really heavy, it's very traumatic. You get a lot of vicarious trauma listening to that type of evidence as well. And so that's what people wanted to share with the inquiry.

You know, I've worked on those stolen wages cases, I see people coming to court, sharing their experience and having that experience at least listened to by someone in authority. You know, it's a real validation, it's a really important part of their own healing process. And the strength it takes to share those types of stories can't be undervalued either.

DANIEL:

Coming up after the break, why we all need to hear the truth.

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DANIEL:

Josh, you've talked about why it's important to share these stories, but why is it important for the community to hear these stories? What will these stories inform the broader community about our own history?

JOSHUA:

Well, that’s it. It is our history. And it is a history that just sits out there in the shadows and it's a dying history in this context. The people who lived it are passing away on a daily basis. I worked in the Kimberleys and the second wave of settlement up there was 1920. I mean, 20 years ago, you could have sat down and had direct evidence from people about what it was like, those early waves of settlers coming through and now could tell you exactly. So each year, each decade, we lose more people and we lose the ability to hear that. And I think that's why that is important is because, in Queensland, as well as, you know, across the country, there are really vast archives of our history and they sit here and mostly in Queensland state archives but, you know, no doubt other institutions and organisations across the state, they give one version of history. Often those documents don't have an Indigenous perspective, they're not developed by an Indigenous person. You know, they're contemporaneous documents that are made in 1840 or 50 or, you know, 1920, mostly by government officials or pastoralists and others about their observations. And so, what the ability of this inquiry does is actually give us a more full picture about our history from the perspective of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who lived it. And that is acutely powerful and that really is about completing our history as Queenslanders.

Audio excerpt — Peta Credlin:

“Joining me now David Crisafulli himself, from Queensland. Tell us why the LNP that you lead can no longer support a treaty?”

Audio excerpt — David Crisafulli:

“Peta, because when Queenslanders speak, leaders should listen. And Queenslanders spoke and I can tell you I heard them.”

DANIEL:

Joshua, as soon as Australia and specifically Queensland voted “no” in the voice referendum last year, David Crisafulli promised he would do away with The Truth-telling and Healing Inquiry. What message do you think the failure of the referendum sent politicians like Crisafulli?

JOSHUA:

Well, look, I will say I've realised over time, you know, it takes a lot of bravery for politicians to do something which is unpopular in a way and to continue with Truth and Treaty in Queensland after the Voice was unpopular. But, you know, the Government at the time pressed forward. I think what has turned the tide on the popularity and, you know, where this inquiry sits is because we've been operating now since 1 July, people understand what this inquiry is. It's not like the Voice where it's some far off concept that people don't know. We've had thousands all up attend our opening ceremony, our hearings. People have really got an opportunity to see, hear and listen to the work of this inquiry and appreciate it's not a big, scary thing. You know, it's not a threat to the rest of Queensland. It's an important piece of work that has a rightful place. And so, unfortunately, we are in this position which is really reminiscent of the chief protector in Queensland, which was the person who decided what happened to all Aboriginal people at a particular point in time, made a decision that affected us all and a single person has decided despite, you know, wide consultation and support and pushing for this for at least six years, that it's not in the best interests of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to continue.

DANIEL:

What do you think this decision tells us more broadly about how the government is going to handle its relationship with First Nations communities over the next four years at least?

JOSHUA:

Look, all I can say is it's a really rocky start. Not just in cutting the inquiry, but people are really disappointed about, as I said earlier, that, you know, that the way the whole thing's been handled. We're sitting here now, a number of days after that decision, and my office still hasn't heard, despite the fact that... I mean, you've seen the press conferences, but also I've written to the minister and I've written to the premier, now a second time to the minister in that letter, requesting meetings, urgent meetings, and, you know, no word at all. So that is really disappointing. You know, if this is the actions of the government, then we can confidently say now that Voice, Treaty, Truth is dead in Queensland and we don't have a plan going forward.

DANIEL:

And finally, Josh, who will we not hear from now that we would have heard from if the inquiry was to continue?

JOSHUA:

Look, we'd only just started our work. We were ready in our report, our first report that was published a week or so ago, sets out where we were going to be. We had a responsibility to travel across all regions in Queensland. We'd actually sent out, opened our submissions portal. We've already received, you know, contact from not just Indigenous groups, but historical societies have responded. We had responses from some of the churches. So, you know, this wasn't an Indigenous-only research project. There are a lot of organisations out there really keen to engage in something like this because, you know, understanding the value and importance of history.

So we had an opportunity here in Queensland to do something really special and we've lost that. We've lost the chance to hear from thousands and thousands of Queenslanders about our history and the role and responsibilities, impacts, etcetera, and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

DANIEL:

Josh, thank you so much for your time.

JOSHUA:

Thank you.

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DANIEL:

Also in the news today...

Independent MP for Wentworth Allegra Spender has revealed she has quit the Chairman’s Lounge, saying special treatment of politicians by airlines is undermining public trust in government and competition in the aviation industry.

Independent MP Kate Chaney has also written to Qantas, handing back her own membership to the invitation only club, saying despite longer trips between her electorate in WA and Canberra, it’s worth it in order to regain community trust.

And,

Mineral Resources founder and billionaire Chris Ellison is leaving the company he started, after revelations of over a decade of tax evasion and the misuse of company resources.

The businessman and owner of Australia’s most expensive home, has been ordered to pay $8.8 million dollars back to the board on top of paying more than $3 million dollars in tax debts.

The news triggered an 8 per cent drop in the company’s shares on Monday.

Tomorrow on the show, Paddy Manning, author of The Successor and host of the Schwartz Media podcast Rupert: the last mogul, on the Murdochs’ influence on this week’s US election and whether Fox News will accept a Trump defeat even if Trump doesn’t.

Audio excerpt — Paddy Manning:

“I think Fox News's position in the coverage of the aftermath of this election will be absolutely critical to the acceptance of the election result on the right. And I think that is the test for Lachlan Murdoch this time around. Are we going to see a repeat of 2020 in 2024?”

DANIEL:

I’m Daniel James, this is 7am. Thanks for listening.

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