RUBY:

From Schwartz Media I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am.

The Liberal party has spent years blocking the country from taking serious climate action… but now in NSW, one Minister is pushing through ambitious environmental policy.

Matt Kean is steering his state to a zero-carbon future. He’s managed to unite the Nationals and the Greens… though he’s made some enemies along the way.

Today, national correspondent for The Saturday Paper Mike Seccombe talks to the Liberal minister forcing action on climate change.

Mike, Matt Kean became the NSW Environment Minister last year. You sat down with him for an interview. Can you tell me - what do you think is driving him?

MIKE:

Yeah, we had quite a long interview via Zoom where, you know, I was working from home and he was in an office at his desk, quite animated.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“Hi Mike.”

Archival Tape -- Mike Seccombe:

“Hey, how are ya!”

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“Mate I’m very well thank you, thanks for your time…”

MIKE:

He had on the wall behind him a picture of one of his political heroes, the Democratic president, John F. Kennedy.

Archival Tape -- Mike Seccombe:

“Hey I can actually see you...”

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“Mate I look much better over the phone, I promise you.”

Archival Tape -- Mike Seccombe:

“Haha! Anyway thank you for making the time”

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“Nah it’s a pleasure mate, it’s a great honour. I’ve followed your career for years, and mate it’s a great opportunity to speak to you now at the Saturday Paper.”

MIKE:

the first thing that he was telling me was that concern for the environment sort of came down from his parents.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“I grew up in northern Sydney. People live in this area because they love the bush. They love the national park. They love the environment. And my parents, my family home back on to the national park.”

MIKE:

The family home was in Sydney's northern suburbs and it backed onto National Park. His parents took him the family bushwalking often on holidays.

Interestingly enough, his father was also a guy who had risen through the ranks of the Energy Sector, starting out as a clerk and ending up as an executive with Energy Australia.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“Y’know it was my dad that was the generation that helped build our state based on coal. And y’know and it’s interesting to see the next generation - the son of someone that was in that industry, that coal industry that powered our economy - is handing over the baton to a new generation…”

MIKE:

And he told me he was very excited about taking the job. But at the same time, he said, he was filled with trepidation.

Archival Tape -- Mike Seccombe:

“was it something you really had your sights set on or is it something that just fell to you?”

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“Well, Mike, I think I must have upset the premier when she told me that I was going to be the minister for Energy and Environment. I thought, what have I done? This is a very contested space in Australian politics. It's brought down three prime ministers. It's torn down governments. So I was sort of, you know, whilst excited about the role, I was also filled with trepidation.”

MIKE:

He expected, reasonably enough, that the people who had torn down governments and torn down political leaders over this subject would probably go after him, too.

And that means, you know, some of his fellow liberals and nationals, the vested interest in the fossil fuel sector and reactionary sections of the media, particularly the Murdoch media, they would come after him, too. And I might say they have.

But nonetheless, he took the role quite determined to do what he could.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“So when I came into the role, I really wanted to fly the flag for the brand of liberalism so that I believed in, and that I felt that my community supported, and that's exactly what they're trying to do.”

RUBY:

OK, so let's talk about what he's doing, what he's done since becoming environment minister.

MIKE:

Well, he has a clean energy roadmap, and he’s implementing it.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“The reason they're having to intervene in the market, Mike, is because there hasn't been the market signals and regulatory settings that will encourage the private sector to build the infrastructure that we need. That's exactly what our energy roadmap sets out to do. Provide the private sector with the playing field that they need to be able to invest with confidence.”

MIKE:

At the end of last month, he put some legislation through the state parliament in support of this roadmap. And the plan is to build 12 gigawatts of large scale renewable energy generation - that's roughly as much as currently exists in the whole of Australia.

And the modelling anticipates that this will attract 32 billion dollars in private investment, that it will create some 6000 jobs during the construction phase, nearly 3000 ongoing operational jobs, mostly in regional areas, and importantly, will cut power bills by hundreds of dollars for households and businesses. So, you know, it seems like a win on all fronts.

He got it through parliament - took it, took a while, more than 30 continuous hours of debate in the state's upper house.

Archival Tape -- Reporter:

“The legislative council sat overnight, spending most of the time debating the government’s Renewable Energy legislation.”

MIKE:

But the interesting thing is that it made no dent at all in the multi partisan support that had brought together in support of the Package. The Greens voted for it, so did Fred Nile of the Christian Democrats who’s you know, at the opposite end of the ideological spectrum. All the left leaning minor parties and independents did, and importantly, the Labour Party did so. So he got this grand coalition together, which was interesting.

And, you know, of course, getting the Nationals in particular on board was a big achievement. You know, in coming on board, they essentially endorsed Kean's view that there is nothing radical about taking strong action in response to climate change, you know, that it's not just an environmental imperative, but it's also an economic imperative. You know, it doesn't conflict with the tenets of political conservatism. You know, quite quite the opposite. In fact, you know, he says that conservatism means conserving that which is important.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“Not in spite of the fact I'm a conservative, but because I'm a conservative. I'm looking to protect our environment because I believe the conservatives have an obligation to hand our planet to our kids better than we found it... And, you know, that's in line with conservative governments in the UK, the Merkel government in Germany, another conservative example.

MIKE:

Of course, you know, others see conservatism as meaning something different, you know, which is protecting existing power structures and vested interests.

And that conflicting view, I think, of what conservatism entails is what has brought him into collision, I guess you would call it, with the current federal government.

Let's talk a bit more about that. Mike, how has Matt Kean come into conflict with the federal government on climate policy?

MIKE:

Well, I think the example that makes it more clear than anything else happened during the last bushfire season. So, you know, the fires of Black Summer are raging out of control across eastern Australia. And some people started. Saying, you know, the scientifically obvious thing, that climate change was a major factor in this and Kean was one of those people.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“The scientists in my department have said that we’re seeing more extreme weather events: we’re seeing hotter summers, we’re seeing drier winters, we’re seeing some of the worst drought conditions in living memory. This is what the scientists have been warning us about for decades…”

MIKE:

speaking at an energy conference in December. He said that what was happening was, quote, exactly what the scientists have warned us would happen, which was longer dry periods, resulting in more droughts and more dramatic bushfires. He said that if the black summer bushfires weren't a catalyst for change of policy, he didn't know what was.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“You cannot deny that more extreme weather events are having an effect on things like bushfire, and by denying it stops us from taking the appropriate action.”

MIKE:

Meanwhile, a number of senior conservative politicians, most notably Scott Morrison, responded by saying that this was, quote, not the time, unquote, for saying such things.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“The direct connection to any single fire event, it’s not a credible suggestion to make that link”

MIKE:

He suggested offering prayers instead.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“Our main thoughts and our prayers are with those who have been so directly…”

MIKE:

But, Kean didn't stop repeating the unpalatable truth. On January 19, he went further and said that some members of the Morrison cabinet actually favoured a stronger policy response to the climate crisis, including some quite conservative members of the Morrison cabinet. And Scott Morrison came down on him like a ton of bricks.

RUBY:

We’ll be back in a moment.

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RUBY:

Mike, let's talk some more about the tension between the NSW Environment Minister and Scott Morrison. When Matt Kean started talking about climate change last bushfire season, what happened?

MIKE:

Scott Morrison went in on him very hard.

Archival Tape -- Scott Morrison:

“Matt Kean doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He doesn’t know what’s going on in the federal cabinet and most of the federal cabinet wouldn’t even know who Matt Kean was…”

MIKE:

It's quite implausible that most of the federal cabinet ministers wouldn't know who Kean was because, you know, he's one of the leading moderates in New South Wales.

But anyway, subsequent to this particular stoush, we can safely say that a lot more people, including people outside New South Wales, would have known about who Matt Kean was, would have known that he was a climate realist and that he was prepared to speak up in contradiction to Scott Morrison.

But more recently, the federal government's sort of internal fossil fuel lobby, there's a handful of them, but anyway they attack Kean's energy roadmap in the in the party room the last two sessions of the year,

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“I’m not too sure exactly why the NSW Government is going this way - they know they will never have to deliver on the full promise that is out there…”

MIKE:

even urging Morrison to pull out of a two billion dollar energy agreement that was struck between the feds and New South Wales earlier this year and also calling for a new coal fired power station to be built in the Hunter Valley.

RUBY:

Hmm. And so, Mike, when you spoke to Matt Kean, what did he say about how concerned he was about all of this, about the way in which he's coming up against people in his own side of politics?

MIKE:

Well, I've got to say, he doesn't seem particularly concerned personally about the attacks on him.

Archival Tape -- Mike Seccombe:

“ ...and you didn't cop any opposition along the line from the Nats or anybody else?”

MIKE:

he seems like a fairly robust sort of a character.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“We can't ignore those people's concerns. We can't write them off because they don't agree with us. We've got to find those areas of common ground…”

MIKE:

But he's clearly frustrated that the federal government, you know, having no comprehensive energy plan of its own, is now sniping at him for coming up with one.

Archival Tape -- Mike Seccombe:

“My question is just about the coordination between the states and whether it's made more difficult by the fact that the feds aren't that actively or so it seems to me anyway, that the feds are actively engaged as they might be”

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“Well, I think I think the feds are actively engaged. But would it be better if we had a national framework? Yes, but I mean, there's been several attempts to achieve that and it's fallen over now. Now, I can't sit on my hands and wait for them to find a pathway forward in Canberra. I've got a responsibility to the citizens and businesses in New South Wales...

MIKE:

In the case of New South Wales, it's particularly urgent because four of the state's big coal fired power stations are slated to close between 2028 and 2035, which sounds a long way away. But, you know, it's not because there are long lead times on building this kind of infrastructure to replace it

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“Consumers in New South Wales saw 60 per cent increases on their bills, and that was because a power station closed in Victoria. And we also had a less reliable system…”

MIKE:

So, you know, he makes a very good point. You've got to be prepared in advance for the old generation of power plants to close down. And the first step of that, in his view, to getting the necessary investment, private sector investment is to make sure that the market signals and the settings are right and that the rules won't change every time there's a change in government or a change of leader within a government. You know, which, of course, is exactly what we've seen at the federal level, you know, where we had quite a good climate policy under the Labor government, which was then dismantled by the Abbott government, which Malcolm Turnbull tried to restore, failed, got voted out by his own party.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“I'm a huge admirer of Malcolm Turnbull. I think Malcolm really was one of the great missed opportunity for our country because I just think it was he had a brilliant mind and he had a great vision for our country, but he didn't get the support he needed and he didn't I don't know what went wrong, but I was determined not to repeat that mistake.

MIKE:

And now we have the Morrison government, which has done not very much because there's a lot of internal resistance there.

Archival Tape -- Mike Seccombe:

“I agree entirely with you about Malcolm in particular on this subject right now, but he couldn't get it through. And yet you seem to have skated through effortlessly with it with everyone except Mark Latham, which is, of course, the debate's moved on. Is it because you're a particularly brilliant negotiator? I mean, what is the secret of your success, mate? That's what I'm asking. I guess.”

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“I'm not a brilliant negotiator like I've known Malcolm Turnbull. I'm someone that genuinely have been watching this is that I want to say shit show that I have said on your programme. Well, you can actually, but probably you wouldn't want to. I've been watching this car crash of public policy for over a decade, and they keep learning for me was that we need to find areas of common ground. We need to find the things that unite us if we're going to move forward.”

MIKE:

And to him, the key takeaway message was that we need to find areas of common ground so that we can get all major players on board to inspire that confidence that will take us forward, you know, hence his very assiduous efforts at putting together this grand coalition that passed his bill last month.

RUBY:

Taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture, do you think that Matt Kean’s actions will actually have an impact on how Australia approaches climate policy in the future?

MIKE:

Oh, for sure. I mean, you know, he's talking big change. Big change. And, you know, I should say he and the New South Wales government are streets ahead of the feds in terms of their aspiration on climate. You know, the Morrison government is struggling to meet its parece target of 26 per cent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2030. New South Wales is on track to meet a target of 35 per cent, you know, which I've got to say is not terribly ambitious by world standards, but by Australian standards, pretty big.

New South Wales is also committed to a net zero target of emissions by 2050, which Morrison and co have strenuously resisted. And, you know, I should say, it's not only New South Wales. All the states now and territories now have net zero targets and most of them are well on the way. The laggard here is the federal government.

If Australia is to make any improvement on its target in the next round of greenhouse, you know, global greenhouse reduction negotiations, it will be by courtesy of the achievement of the states. And that's the great irony here, of course, is that even as Morrison and Taylor and the climate skeptics in the federal government snipe away, they really need Kean and the other states to make them look good on the international stage.

So, you know, Matt Kean’s done pretty well and talking to him now, you really wouldn't credit that he took the portfolio with, you know, filled with trepidation, as he puts it, and his confidence is just infectious, I've got to say.

Archival Tape -- Mike Seccombe:

“I'm impressed at how enthused you became as we went on.”

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“This is nation building stuff, Mike! This is about the future of our country. This is about setting us up for success…”

MIKE:

he's very animated when he talks about it.

Archival Tape -- Matt Kean:

“I’m really trying to be an evangelist to show other people ‘hey, this is what’s happening’...”

MIKE:

He described himself to me as an evangelist, not only for the new technology, but also for a new politics in this area that, you know, are not dominated by fear and division.

All I can say is I only wish his federal counterparts would listen to this evangelist and catch the fire.

RUBY:

Mike, thank you so much for your time today.

MIKE:

My pleasure.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today…

The New Zealand government has agreed to establish a trans-Tasman bubble with Australia early next year.

The decision would allow travel between both countries without the requirement to quarantine. The travel bubble is conditional on coronavirus cases in Australia staying low.

And the wild storms lashing Queensland and northern NSW have been described by authorities as “similar to a category one cyclone”.

State emergency services received more than 6,000 calls for help over the weekend. The Bureau of Meteorology has warned that further storms could lead to dangerous flash flooding.

I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am, see ya tomorrow.