[Theme Music Starts]

ANGE:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ange McCormack. This is 7am.

Australia has a new Sex Discrimination Commissioner. Dr Anna Cody.

Before being Dean of the school of Law at Western Sydney Uni, Dr Cody spent 20 years as the director of a community legal centre, advocating for disadvantaged clients.

In her new role, the Commissioner will be tasked with promoting gender equality and fighting sex-based discrimination.

So, how will she decide what issues to tackle first? And how far does Australia have to go to build a fairer society?

Today, Dr Anna Cody, Australia’s eighth sex discrimination commissioner.

It’s Monday, October 2nd.

[Theme Music Ends]

ANGE:

Commissioner, congratulations on your appointment. When entering a role like this, how do you prioritise what you're gonna focus on? Because I'm sure you could spend your entire term looking at just one thing like discrimination in the workplace or the gender pay gap. How do you decide what to prioritise?

Anna:

You're absolutely right that one could spend a lot of time on just one issue. And I think one of the things that I'm really conscious of is bringing my experience, my perspective into the role and that there are many issues that warrant attention in the area of gender equality and LGBTI+ issues. So it's about mapping the scene, working out who's doing what in this space and how I can lead in particular areas. Also whether there's a potential for me to drive some change as well. So it's still too early for me to outline exactly what I'm going to be doing in the role. It's week four now so I don't have a clear agenda that's outlined yet, and I'll also be working with the team as well to analyse some of those gaps. Certainly, whatever I do, I'm really keen to bring a focus on the diversity of women and girls experience and LGBTQ+ communities. So looking at cultural diversity, First nations, women and girls and women and girls with a disability. So I'm really keen to hear from those sectors around some of their priorities and bringing whatever work I do will come with that approach.

ANGE:

I want to talk about one of your first jobs. You worked in the Northern Territory to help establish a domestic violence legal service for mainly First Nations women. How has that shaped your perspective?

Anna:

And it was a really incredible job, too. That was my first job as a solicitor, so for me it was about seeing what law could achieve. It was a deep insight into women's lives and their experience of violence. So yes, around 65% of the clients were Indigenous at that point, but there was a range of non-Indigenous women as well who experienced domestic violence. I was struck by the strength of the cultures in the Northern Territory, the Indigenous cultures. I learnt some Arrernte while I was there and worked really strongly with other NGOs as well as governmental agencies. So working strongly with the police with the equivalent of the Attorney-General's Department to look at what was working in the law and what needed to change. Hearing women's stories was really powerful of the depth of abuse and violence that they were experiencing, but also their strength and their incredible hope and use of law and the legal system to deal with and reject violence within their lives. I think some of those collaborations really shaped how I think about the law, both the importance of it being responsive to individuals, but also the importance of working with collaborators to change the law, to really make it responsive to those who bear the brunt of it as well. How can we improve it so that it's more reflective and responsive to create the sort of society that we want in Australia?

Ange:

Hmm. And so you've mentioned how the law treats First Nations people, and you've mentioned the disadvantages faced specifically by Aboriginal girls and women. We're about to have this referendum, on the Voice of the Parliament. How do you think the voice could change the lives of Indigenous women and girls?

Anna:

I think it would be substantially impactful. One of the issues that hasn't been highlighted perhaps so much in the media is that the suggested changes, if the Voice were to be successful and were implemented, is that the representation would include equal representation of women and men within the Voice so that it would ensure gender parity within any advisory body. And if we want policy to be effective, if we want programs to actually achieve their proposed goals, then we need the people who are going to be most impacted by them to shape those policies. And that's what I see the voice to Parliament is being about. It's about providing expert advice about Indigenous people's lives and perspectives and experience to government so that it improves the functioning of government as well as the recognising of the importance of First Nations people in Australia.

We know that many of the health and education employment outcomes are not representative of the strengths and skills of Indigenous people. So it's really important that we actually try and address some of those inequities. And I think that we do that through having a voice to Parliament, amongst many other issues as well.

I mean, one of the key ones obviously in my area law is the overrepresentation of women and girls in First Nations, women and girls in prison. And that's an absolutely shocking issue across Australia. I think it's something like 38% of our prison population at the moment in New South Wales, in girls and women is First Nations. And when they only make up 3.5% of the population, that is something seriously going wrong with our law and legal system that that's happening.

ANGE:

After the break - how the commissioner will continue the work of Kate Jenkins - and stamp out sexual harassment and discrimination in workplaces.

[Advertisement]

Audio excerpt – Kate Jenkins:

“A universal desire not just to feel and be safe at work, but to be treated with respect. Respect. So that's what we called it. Our respected work report, with its 55 recommendations, was tabled in the Federal Parliament…”

ANGE:

Commissioner, early this year on 7am we spoke to your predecessor, Kate Jenkins, and she said that too often action on sex discrimination comes about because of scandal. You know, we tend to be reactive to wrongdoing. The issues in Parliament House are a really good example of that. You know, that tends to be how we go about things rather than being preventative and proactive. Do you see it the same way?

Anna:

I do see it that part of the issue with our system of dealing with sex discrimination has been very reactive. And that goes through to having had a system that's based on individuals making complaints and that puts a very heavy burden on those individuals. And we know that only 18% of those who have actually experienced sexual harassment make a complaint about it. So what's exciting about the Respect@Work programme of work is that it includes enacting a positive duty on employers and organisations.

Audio excerpt – Kate Jenkins:

“Until now, employers were only held accountable if a victim of sexual harassment complained and could prove they'd been been harassed. It was easy for workplaces to assume that if there were no complaints, there was no harassment.”

Anna:

So that means that from the 12th of December 2023, all businesses, no matter their size, will have that responsibility to ensure that they prevent sexual harassment and sex based discrimination.

One of the documents and processes or policies that we've recently released is some guidelines around what employers need to do, and it's a really great set of resources for businesses, for organisations, which talks about leadership having to ensure that there's good leadership and demonstrating that, ensuring culture change. Having a risk management scheme as well as knowledge of the law relating to prevention of sexual harassment and then support for anyone who has experienced it, as well as a monitoring and evaluation strategy. So we are ensuring that there will be ways to make some of that change, preventative rather than just reactive.

ANGE:

And how do you think this positive duty recommendation will change Australian workplaces day to day? What will that look like?

Anna:

It will change in the same way that when we first got Work Health and Safety legislation, there was a gradual shift to recognising that all boards, all CEOs are very conscious of work, health and safety and the significance of ensuring safe workplaces. So this is expanding on that. It's recognising that psychosocial safety is equally important and certainly ensuring that there are laws, policies, steps in place to actually create safe workplaces. So I do think it's a fundamental shift in the way we think about sexual harassment. Australia has a serious issue with sexual harassment, with one in three workers having experienced it in the last five years. And employers are key now. I think that the situation in Australia has shifted in the same way that international efforts shifted. We no longer are willing to tolerate sex based discrimination and sexual harassment within our workplaces.

ANGE:

The Positive Duty Initiative has been criticised by some as being a box ticking exercise. And it's interesting that you mentioned, you know, workplace standards or workplace safety as a comparison and yes, we have those in Australia, but still some employers tick the box for workplace safety and then an accident happens at work, someone's injured at work, that kind of thing. What will make this a different program will go beyond a box ticking exercise?

Anna:

It takes commitment from the leadership and that's one of the guidelines that we focus on is demonstrated leadership. So modelling positive behaviour, ensuring that there are rewards for those who comply. We at the Commission also have a compliance function. We can issue compliance notices if we have a reasonable suspicion that employers aren't complying. Whether or not we look at particular industries or particular employers is yet to be determined. But I don't think, that ticking a box showing that you have a particular policy in place would be sufficient. There there is a real will across employers, across chambers of commerce, across NGOs to ensure that sexual harassment becomes something of the past, that we don't expect people to just put up with it and women and girls just to put up with it. So I think it's a symbiotic relationship in that society changed, but also the law has changed. So the two go together and there is a growing awareness of the harm that that creates and a lack of tolerance for that sort of behaviour. So I don't think it's just going to be a box ticking exercise. It definitely will have the power of both societal views on it as well as the law behind it.

ANGE:

And when your term ends in five years time, what do you hope Australia will look like when it comes to addressing sex discrimination? What progress do you hope we will have made?

Anna:

I hope that we will have a more equal society. There will be greater pay equity between women and men, that the gap won't be so huge, that there will be a breadth of women participating across our political life from culturally diverse backgrounds, First Nations, women with disability and LGBTI+ community.

I'm sure that we will have a reduced level of sexual harassment and sex based discrimination because of the introduction of preventative measures to stop sexual harassment. And also that has happened with the change in attitudes. We will have better outcomes in terms of education and health services for women and girls to try and narrow some of the poor outcomes, particularly that experienced by women and girls that experience violence. We will have listened to our First Nations women and girls about what measures will work for their communities and enacted that into policy and enact that into programs.

There will still be work to do. We will have achieved some great changes.

ANGE:

Those are some really big goals for a five year agenda of yours. But good luck and thank you so much for your time today.

Anna:

That's a pleasure Ange.

[Advertisement]

[Theme Music Starts]

ANGE:

Also in the news today…

About 60 refugees who were held by Australia on Manus island and are still stranded in Papua New Guinea, are at risk of being abandoned with no support.

An investigation by the nine newspapers reveals that money paid by the Australian government to provide for the health and welfare of the former detainees has gone missing – which could leave the men, some of whom were held for up to 10 years by Australia, with no food or shelter in PNG.

And

Festival season began this weekend, with partygoers confronted with 250 police and sniffer dogs at the Listen Out festival in NSW.

A 2019 coroners report recommended abandoning the use of sniffer dogs, saying they can encourage patrons to panic and ingest any drugs they are carrying – potentially causing death or hospitalisation.

I’m Ange McCormack, this is 7am. We’ll be back again tomorrow.

[Theme Music Starts]