DANIEL:

This episode is the third part of a three part series. If you haven’t yet, start with Children of the Intervention, and then listen to The coppers.

Also, it contains some strong language.

Audio Excerpt - Renee:

“Most of us have lived in these camps all our life. I’ve moved out, I’ve come back. Grew up in Charles Creek.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“So um, you got some kids of your own?”

Audio Excerpt - Renee:

“Yep.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“What are your hopes and dreams for them?”

Audio Excerpt - Renee:

“They got brains. They do go to school all the time. Yeah, I've got my eldest daughter now has almost finished year 12 and she's straight into a health workers course straight after school holidays. And the other ones in year ten and yeah, she's pursuing what she wants to do now through the VET courses through school.”

DANIEL:

I’m at Charles Creek camp, just on the edge of Alice Springs. It's its own little community, at the bottom of a hill.

I’m talking to Renee. While we talk, her kids are playing nearby. Still in their uniforms, just home from school. They’re burning off that last bit of energy before dinner and settling in for the night.

I wanna know what it’s been like to live here. Under the glaring spotlight of governments but to never be seen, only monitored. To live a life within the ever tightening parameters decided by the state.

The latest one, being the curfews imposed earlier this year. Kids weren’t allowed on the streets after 6pm.

Audio Excerpt - Renee:

“That was horrible. Like, I've just finished the season being an Under 17s coach for the girls side into Alice, it was a bit hard because we had to bring our training times earlier just so the kids could be home before the certain time. Which was silly because none of my girls was involved with any of the rubbish that was going on around town and it really affected our training ways. So yeah, it was pretty stupid that we got affected from it really bad.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“So it is kind of the typical thing that happens in the territory is that everyone gets tarred with the same brush because a certain number of people are playing up, and then everyone has to suffer as a result. Is that the way you feel?”

Audio Excerpt - Renee:

“Yep, exactly the way I feel. It’s, you know, it's not our problem, it should be brought upon their guardians or parents or whatever with whoever is doing wrong.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“And so no one’s talking to each other, that's what it seems to me. No one's actually, you can enforce the law, you can brings in curfews, you can bring in interventions through the amy and stuff, but no one is sitting down and talking with people to find out what the problem is and what the solution is.”

Audio Excerpt - Renee:

“Yeah, that'd be alright if we could do that but no one is game enough to get out and talk about it, so yeah.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“It must be pretty exhausting.”

Audio Excerpt - Renee:

“Yeah, it is. Being locals and lived here all our life. So, yeah.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Do you see a long term future here for yourself and your family?”

Audio Excerpt - Renee:

“At the moment, no.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“So where would you go?”

Audio Excerpt - Renee:

“Somewhere out of Alice Springs. Hopefully.”

[Theme Music Starts]

DANIEL:

It’s not so much the crime wave that’s driving Renee out of Alice Springs. It’s been the response to it. People who are trying their best are looked on with suspicion. It’s tiring having to prove yourself time and time again, to do the little things. Go to the shops, drive a car, raise a family. Every Aboriginal person here is under the same pressure.

The thing that needs fixing is not Renee or her family, but the continual trespassing on their lives by clerks and coppers.

She’s not alone in wanting to leave Alice, those who can afford it are packing up and leaving. There are FOR SALE signs everywhere you go in town. There’s a glut of homes on the market.

So what do the people that remain want? What’s working? What needs to happen to make things work? The little things that can make a big difference.

I’m Daniel James, from Schwartz Media and 7am, This is Alice Springs.

Episode three: Mparntwe.

[Theme Music Ends]

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Audio Excerpt - Lia Finocchiaro:

“Thank you, everyone. What an incredible group of dedicated, hardworking Territorians. How good is it to be Territorian tonight?”

DANIEL:

There’s a new government in the Territory, and its leader has promised solutions.

Earlier this year, Lia Finocchiaro became the new chief minister of the Northern Territory.

She won in a landslide, almost completely wiping out the Labor Party from parliament, reinstalling the Country Liberal Party to power.

Audio Excerpt - Lia Finocchiaro:

“As a born and bred second generation territory kid, the granddaughter of Italian migrants. I grew up living an iconic Territory childhood. Hunting, camping, fishing and playing outside. I always knew the Territory was a special place, and I was lucky to be a Territorian.”

DANIEL:

The new Chief Minister has just turned 40, but she’s been in parliament for 13 years. She’s CLP through and through, as much a part of the political establishment as you can get here.

The dawn of this era looks strangely like the old one. It’s another Territorian looking back at this place as they remember. To get back to those times, the new Chief Minister will be implementing her tough on crime agenda.

Audio Excerpt - Lia Finocchiaro:

“Territorians have stood up against nearly two decades of escalating crime, an economy going backwards and the erosion of our once iconic lifestyle. But tomorrow is the start of a new day and a new chapter!”

DANIEL:

She’s promised to lower the age of criminal responsibility to 10, tightening already tight bail laws.

Schools will have truancy officers, and there’s the threat to restrict government benefits for parents of kids who misbehave.

Police will be given more powers to search kids as young as 10 if they’re considered “suspicious”, the greyest of law enforcement criteria.

Spit hoods, banned after the Don Dale Royal Commission, will be back. The prison itself, in the midst of a makeover, new and improved to house all the incarcerated children to come.

Audio Excerpt - News Reporter:

“CLP are proposing on the issue of youth crime to reducing the age of criminal responsibility back to 10 from 12 years of age."

Audio Excerpt - Lia Finocchiaro:

“Yes.”

Audio Excerpt - News Reporter:

“What experts have said that this is a good idea and what have they said?”

Audio Excerpt - Lia Finocchiaro:

“Well, the experts of the CLP listen to are the everyday Territorians who are out there sick and tired of being victims of crime…”

DANIEL:

Well, they’re her solutions. But what about the locals?

Before we came to Alice Springs, we called a lot of people. Elders, lawyers, health workers, a lot of people who have been fighting over decades to try to improve the plight of people living here.

Blair MacFarland’s name kept on coming up.

So we set up a meeting with him. We meet him at the Olive Pink Botanical Gardens. They’re desert gardens, nestled at the base of one of the hills of the eastern MacDonnell Ranges. The sky is blue and the morning sun is warm.

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Hey Blair, how you going?”

DANIEL:

After decades of work on the frontline, he’s approaching retirement and is at a point where he can tell it like it is. Call out anyone or any agency that needs to be called out.

Audio Excerpt - Blair:

“Yes, I'm Blair McFarland. One of my things is that I'm 2024 NT Australian of the year. I said that so that, you know, sort of I've got a little bit of generally sort of acknowledged cred in case you’ve never heard of me, which of course the vast majority of will never have.”

DANIEL:

Blair arrived in the mid-80s from Melbourne and fell in love with the place and the people.

Petrol sniffing was a sporadic problem when he arrived. But by the start of the new millennium, the problem became more and more prevalent until it turned into an unrelenting wave with no sign of stopping.

Audio Excerpt - News reporter 2:

“It’s an issue that’s plagued remote Indigenous communities for decades and its effects are devastating. Petrol sniffing is on the rise…”

DANIEL:

In 2002, Blair established the Central Australian Youth Link Up Service (CAYLUS), to support young people sniffing petrol. Blair himself had first hand encounters with people who had attempted suicide as a result of sniffing. One man he saved went on to save another from a similar attempt.

Audio Excerpt - News reporter 2:

“Blair McFarland is the manager of CAYLUS, he’s speaking with Cathie Van Extel.”

Audio Excerpt - Blair:

“So the youth are running around with a real feeling of like nobody cares about us. It’s definitely contributed to a feeling of unease on the streets in Alice Springs like that a lot of people are really concerned about it…”

DANIEL:

Through CAYLUS he advocated for the Low Aromatic Fuel Act in 2013, which resulted in a 95% drop in petrol sniffing.

It was as close as you could get to ever solving a complex problem in this part of the world.

But this is different.

This crisis is much worse.

Audio Excerpt - Blair:

“It’s really quite different, because basically a petrol sniffer is like a zombie. You know, they sort of, they stumble around. They've got a can against their face and they don’t seem to see anything. That’s what it was like then, and they were doing themselves serious damage.

But now it's really contrasty to that. And the now is a bunch of kids with ADHD; FASD; global developmental delay; They're hungry; They're wired; They have sort of off, the traditional authority systems have been undermined by colonisation for generations. And this is what Alice Springs is now facing. The karma that we're facing because of policy decisions made a generation ago.”

DANIEL:

But no one in politics is talking about that. It seems like they’re only thinking as far ahead as the next electoral cycle will allow.

Audio Excerpt - Blair:

“I think that there are so many players here operating on their own agendas that it's actually, what a mathematician would call, a chaos field. A field where there are so many decisions being made that it's really unpredictable in which direction things will go. And that's, I think, what you're feeling here. There is no plan. Like, you know, the crime stuff well they're saying, oh, we'll put everybody in jail. So like, is that the plan? That everybody in the Northern Territory will either be a prisoner or a warden by the year 2050?”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Lowering the age of criminal responsibility back to 10.”

Audio Excerpt - Blair:

“You know what? They should do six. That would be more fun. It’s just crazy.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“What do you got to say about it?”

Audio Excerpt - Blair:

“Oh, it's just, it's a crazy, desperate, foolish thing that in no way affects, you know, what's making those kids criminal. If they wanted to do something about that whole scene, you'd put a lot more resources into diagnosing and treating all of those things.”

DANIEL:

His view echoes experts who say that not only does tough on crime not work, it’s a potential breach of human rights.

When it comes to kids in prison or detention, or whatever you wanna call it, what the state's doing is swapping one culture for another. One where the cycle of crime and punishment becomes the norm.

Throwing children in detention and placing them in previously banned spit hoods can and will have psychological and cognitive impacts on kids' development.

Even though the strategies won't work, people have lost hope to fight against them. This is the mandate the government has despite less than 45% of enrolled voters in bush electorates casting a ballot.

Blair says the low voter turnout is linked to the outcome of The Voice referendum as well.

Audio Excerpt - Blair:

“I think The Referendum made Aboriginal people even more cynical than before about, what's the point? Because I think a whole lot of Aboriginal people became really, just, disheartened about the whole voting thing and didn't vote. Like in the electorate I ran in, the 6500 people registered to vote, and 2500 voted.”

DANIEL:

Blair ran as a Greens candidate in the recent election and lost. Greens are a rare breed in the territory, perhaps his last attempt to force change in Alice Springs and beyond.

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“So Blair, what needs to be done?”

Audio Excerpt - Blair:

“I don't know what, I don't know. I've tried, I've tried everything. Nothing works.”

DANIEL:

Blair contributed a lot, more than most. But ultimately, change here is gonna come from somewhere else.

After the break, one man and his family in the middle of the desert trying their best to help the children of Mparntwe break the cycle. It means Ruby and I are going on country.

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“Are these the biggest horses you’ve ever seen?”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“They’re fucking massive.”

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Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“We saw an emu the other day just over there running around. We just picked up a baby bindy about that big. His head was stuck in a can!”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“So we're surrounded, can you describe where we are? I mean, we're surrounded by rocky escarpments. We're part of the MacDonnell Ranges here.”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“East of MacDonnell Ranges, I think. This is the Undoolya side of the Mparntwe country. And over here, there's a great significance of connection to this country. That’s the three caterpillars. Anjulko’s my great, great, great grandfather. He's not too far from here.”

DANIEL:

We’ve come here at a cracking time of day. Late afternoon. The sun low over the MacDonnell ranges on the horizon. I’m with Damien, the fella who’s been our unofficial tour guide. We’re out at his favourite place, the place where he tries to make a difference to what’s happening here.

His generosity helped us a great deal for this series. But now we’re at his outstation, the spot that made us want to speak with him in the first place.

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“All what you see is what I've accumulated out of my own pocket.

This whole machine here, I’ve only bought that cheap. But it's done on me some, you know, some world of greatness.”

DANIEL:

There’s caravans for smoko and to shelter from the weather. There’s fences, gates and pens.

And there’s horses.

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“What's this fellow's name?”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“This is Melon. She's a mare.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Shows how much I know about horses.”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“That's Emma; Melon; Chopsticks; This is Mo, my big horse.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“He's a big fella. How many hands is he?”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“16, 16 hands. And the other ones on the other side, that’s DJ and that’s Grim up the back.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Yeah, that's the biggest horse I've ever seen in my life.”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“He's the most gentlest one. He’s raised all the other horses…”

DANIEL:

Emma, Melon and Chopsticks are looked after by kids who come here from town. Kids who spent time in detention, or kids with substance issues. Damien calls the program All Rounder.

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“I got a young bloke that I’m training, Justin. And he’s getting ready to race again so he’s probably gonna race Chopsticks or this big fella here.

So we’d get kids out here in numbers of 30, 29 different, different young fellas, different ages. We could either be done identifying bush medicine or trees to make bush tools out of. We do uh, we do a cultural conversation. Half of the group might want to do the horses, brush them down, and we get the other half preparing the saddle. And then we'll switch, so they both get 2 learning sessions over one day. And that could be the mechanics, Or that could be the fencing, or that could be the cooking or the artwork or the fitness side of things. So we break it down for the 1 day and split it in 2s.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“So, by the time the kids have come through the program, what, what will they know how to do that they didn’t know how to do before they got here?”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“Well, here's the thing. When you talk about pioneering days, everything was built on how much skills you had and how, how useful you could be on country. So we tried to give them all those skills, so if a job presented itself, they'd be trained in multiple ways. So a job wouldn't sort of um, cause them any fear to apply for one. But we normally aim to explore their talents, and expose our talent and push them into that sort of workforce because then they'll stick at it because they love doing it.

So we do, you know, all sorts of stuff. Welding, fencing, mechanics, cooking, artwork, horsemanship. I believe, from what I've seen, I've seen a lot of change. I've seen a chemical here that actually works.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“What’s that chemical?”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“The chemical is Back on Country.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Yeah, right.”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“And just being at peace with country and animals, it gives a different approach when you're trying to educate someone or talk to someone to have the time to take it in.”

DANIEL:

All Rounder is a working work in progress, and Damien’s reasons for starting the program are deep.

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“The origin behind it is my dad. He’s um, a cattleman and the person before him grew up in a home, stolen generation, very resilient. Took on a different skill set, because that was what was required back in the day.”

DANIEL:

As a kid, Damien’s dad Dennis was forcibly removed from his family and sent to Darwin. Somehow he escaped and returned to his country where he became a ringer on a cattle station.

Through years of skilled and hard toil, he went on to become one of the first Aboriginal owners of a cattle station. I’ve seen footage of Dennis, Damien looks and sounds just like him.

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“I was raised out bush on, like, on cattle stations, see my dad doing it. But to be creative was the key for me.”

DANIEL:

In life, Damien like many of us do, worked a series of jobs, many of them a long way from his true passion, but in aide of his people nonetheless.

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“What were you doing before you started the program?”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“I was an officer at a bailing facility called Salt Bush. And we were trying to keep them from not getting locked up and keep them from coming back. And then I heard about these other programs that’s being delivered, but these kids were still reoffending. But they were receiving so much funding every year. And I come to think about it, where’s all this money going? Because there’s all this money being chucked around but there’s no change.

So I created an idea for my program that was based on my dad’s upbringing from his pioneering days.”

DANIEL:

To find a path forward, not only for himself but his community, Damien would be guided from within. He could look to his own flesh and blood for the trail out of the mess. He would look to his own father.

Dennis passed away a couple of years ago, but his name and memory live on. Damien has called the land where we are on RDK Outstation, after his old man Roy Dennis Kunoth. It means that every kid that gets a helping hand will have Dennis to thank as much as Damien.

He believes a small black run and owned programs like this can help kids heal, re-orientate their lives and help them in a way that locking them up never will.

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“I don’t think there’s too many programs like mine. I think its pretty unique in how it’s designed and where the origin comes from. I’ve done a little bit of work and most of my work’s been pretty good.

I’d like to expand. I’d like to have young people out here full time just caretaking for the animals and getting a wage at some point in time. Eventually I’d like to run a bit of cattle. I can introduce that cattle industry back in, you know, to these young people’s lives. Giving them an opportunity to chase cattle in the yard, brand em and mark em and just teach them a bunch of skills to be self-sufficient back on their own country.

And I've seen a lot of programs, like I was saying, they get a lot of funding but there’s no real outcomes. I’d like to be the first that could create outcomes before I receive any type of funding.”

DANIEL:

I was mesmerised by the setting and what Damien was doing, but there was one question I was dreading.

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“Would you like to go for a ride or not?”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Not a chance. And let me stop you right there.”

DANIEL:

It’s not that I’m not a fan of horses, it’s that I fear they won’t be a fan of me. Damien’s son Byson is of a similar mindset. He’s been with us all day but he’s quiet and shy, especially around the animals.

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Do you ride any of them Byson?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“I don’t know for animals.”

Audio Excerpt - Damien:

“Yeah, he um, he rid my big one, that was last year. This bloke lives up in Darwin, but he occasionally comes down and visits, check out what I'm doing, check out the program..."

DANIEL:

Byson’s 18, but he's a young 18. Despite his shyness, he’s been warm and friendly with us and has a dry sense of humour; well aware of his surroundings and mindful of what he has to say.

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“What’s it like living in Alice Springs?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“It's a bit messed up here and there.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“You're 18.”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“Yeah.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“And what do you want to do with your life from here?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“I haven't got to that point yet.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“It’s a big question isn’t it? What about what your old man does?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“Nah, I don’t know how to ride horses and stuff.”

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“You feel lucky that you've got someone like your dad as a role model that's kind of, you know, been a bit of a beacon for you and your siblings?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“Yeah, pretty much.”

DANIEL:

In my mind, Byson was an example of a kid on the right path. If he played his cards right, he could stay at arms distance from the system, avoid becoming hoovered up by it and part of the cycle. He has a loving family, his dad’s a local leader and a role model.

The outstation is an oasis in a desert of disarray. Somewhere where you can point to the chaos elsewhere and know from where you stand, you can keep it bay.

I thought he was one of the lucky ones, but it’s wrong to assume anything about this place.

Ruby, Byson and I were sitting together in the car when we started chatting. At first, just small talk about life at the station.

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“One time I came here, because my dad was forcing me to come and leave water for the horses and that, you know? But I took the wrong track and I just got stuck."

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“Oh shit.”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“On the other road.”

DANIEL:

But as we drove on, Byson started telling me something that complicated all that.

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“So, when were you up in Darwin?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“I was coming back Wednesday.”

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“Oh really?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“Yeah.”

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“And so why were you up there?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“Court issues, as a youth.”

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“So wait, were you? You weren’t in Don Dale or anything were you?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“Nah, I was.”

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“You were? Oh shit.”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“For like 9 months.”

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“What was that like?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“It was a little bit scary at the first part of it.”

DANIEL:

It took a while for that to sink in. This young fella that we were getting to know, a gentle soul, had just spent 9 months 15 hours up the road in the infamous Don Dale Youth Detention Facility.

He says he felt pressured into the crimes that landed him there.

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“The people. Like people, you know, they’ll be with that forcing stuff, you know? Like forcing you to do this and forcing you to do that. They’ll bring that like b-word onto you, oh you little female dog, you know? Like you’re scared, you know, like that. And they’ll like, make it more tempting, but that’s all behind me now.”

DANIEL:

In Don Dale, Byson quickly learnt to keep his head down.

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Did they ever get rough with you?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“First times, but I’m a little bit like, I’m kind to them now, you know?

Audio Excerpt - Daniel:

“Why?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

"Cause I’m a long way from home, that's what I was thinking, Alice Springs is a long way from here.”

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“Is this the right way?”

Audio Excerpt - Byson:

“Yeah, that’s right.”

DANIEL:

Byson’s story’s a reminder of the importance of programs like All Rounder.

And perhaps it wasn’t a coincidence that Damien started the program around the same time Byson was sent to Don Dale.

Three generations of Arrernte men, Dennis, Damien and Byson, somehow working together. The giant caterpillars that formed the McDonnell ranges in Arrernte culture can be seen in the distance.

The dreamtime stories are as beautiful as the landscape itself.

But in 2024 the thought of what can happen to kids like Byson, and the ten year olds that could serve time in the facility in which he’d just come from, makes the beauty of the landscape and the people here ache that little bit more.

Audio Excerpt - Children:

“Hello, hello.”

DANIEL:

Later, as the sun fell lower and the dust became redder, I was drawn by the sight of Chimeria, Damien’s youngest. Just 13 months old; blonde hair; olive skin and a cheeky smile. We would’ve dubbed her ‘Creamy’ back on Yorta Yorta country, but this is her land and it’s where she’s meant to be.

Audio Excerpt - Ruby:

“Good walking! How long has she been walking for?”

Audio Excerpt - Chimeria’s Mother:

“She only just started a couple of days now…”

DANIEL:

As she toddles her way through the same dust her ancestors played in through the millennia, it reminds me that what we’ve seen during our time here are more her problems than anyone else's.

Even though she’s born into a loving family, with strong role models and big hearts, the fact that she’s born and will be raised on her land means she’ll face a battle to become whatever she desires. A problem that children the same age but born elsewhere will never have.

That is the greatest injustice of all and that’s the heart of the problem, at the heart of this country.

This is Mparntwe.

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[Theme Music Starts]

DANIEL:

This is Alice Springs is written, reported and hosted by me, Daniel James.

Ruby Jones co-reported and executive produced the series.

Cheyne Anderson is our senior producer.

Sarah McVeigh is our editor. Chris Dengate is our associate editor.

Original compositions by Zoltan Fecso. Mixing by Travis Evans. We had production support from Atticus Bastow and Zaya Altangerel. Additional recording by Lloyd Barrett.

This is Alice Springs was made on Arrernte, Wiradjuri, Wurundjeri and Dharawal Land

Thanks to everyone who spoke to me on and off the record and welcomed me into their lives.

[Theme Music Ends]