THOMAS:

That evening. It was one of the hardest things I think I've ever experienced in my life.

Audio excerpt — Reporter:

“You have worked for years to try and advocate for a Voice to Parliament. Can you explain what's running through your head at this moment?”

Audio excerpt — Thomas:

“I'm devastated. I know there's a lot of people that have done a lot of hard work, you know, not just here in this room, but across Australia. You know, many thousands of volunteers.”

DANIEL:

Thomas Mayo is an optimist by nature.

But on the evening of October 14 of last year, his optimism was put to the ultimate test.

It was the night the referendum he campaigned so hard for was so utterly defeated.

THOMAS:

So many emotions all at once. It was, you know, anger, sadness and, I think, the words that I said were pretty raw at the time, you know, and I was, quite disappointed in the result of course, but I was mostly disappointed in the way that one side of politics, Peter Dutton, chose to use it as a political opportunity.

Audio excerpt — Thomas:

“But we have seen a disgusting, No campaign, a campaign that has been dishonest, that has lied to the Australian people. And I'm sure that will come out in the analysis. I'm sure that history will reflect poorly on Peter Dutton, Pauline Hanson, all of those that have opposed this.”

DANIEL:

And although the referendum saw Australians vote resoundingly against the Voice, Thomas has not given up hope.

In fact, he’s written a new book, Always Was Always Will Be – outlining a vision for what comes next.

THOMAS:

I think, when it comes to the Constitution, how this country is structured, we can't blame the forefathers of Australia, we can blame ourselves for not getting it done last year. It's us, you know, under our watch in our time, that we rejected Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. That 65,000 years of history and culture – we rejected that as being part of who we are and our founding document. But with this book, I had to think about that and let go of any bitterness, you know? I still feel an urgent need for change in this country. I see the Closing the Gap report continuing to report failures, so far from relaxed in that sense. And I hope this book can dust off people, give them the hope they need to keep backing us up.

DANIEL:

Apart from writing the book, we're able to get any sort of downtime with your family after it? I mean, I remember seeing you on the trail and you hadn't seen your family or weren't going to see your family for months. Did you get time to spend some quality time with them?

THOMAS:

Yeah, absolutely I did. I enjoyed going fishing with them and going camping. I think one of the most special things was being able to get out on the saltwater again with the family. I love fishing, I love hunting, and so do my kids. And we got out to our favourite fishing spot, caught some trevallies, you know, a nice firm white flesh for making nummus. And in the build up weather, very humid, like swimming through the air, it's so hot and like a soup. We made fresh nummus. And, it's lemon and vinegar and chilli and raw onion and raw fish cooked in the acidity, put in the esky and it's just, it's such a wonderful thing to eat cold in that weather while you're fishing. And I asked my little daughter, Ruby, what her favourite part of the fishing trip was, and she said that it was making the nummus out at sea.

DANIEL:

Beautiful. Beautiful. I want to try some of that.

THOMAS:

Yeah. It's lovely. You’ve got to try it, brother, when you're in Darwin with me.

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DANIEL:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Daniel James. This is 7am.

In the months leading up to the referendum, like many other publicly outspoken supporters of the Voice, Thomas Mayo experienced a barrage of attacks from conservative media outlets.

He says that even though the campaign for Yes lost the vote, what they did gain was resilience and a new generation of Indigenous leaders.

Today, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander activist Thomas Mayo on his new book, and the continuing fight for justice and recognition for First Nations people.

It’s Wednesday, September 4.

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DANIEL:

Thomas In the book, you mentioned that during the campaign and probably before that really, there were a number of assertions made by opponents of the Yes campaign. The first being the notion of “elite Aboriginals” and the second being the notion that Australia treats all people the same. Can you tell us about what you have to say about those two notions?

THOMAS:

Yeah. Look, the argument that we heard throughout the campaign that we shouldn't listen to Indigenous leaders because they're elite, you know, because they might have achieved some academic qualifications or they might have risen to leadership in their peak health bodies, or they might have advocated for many, many years and then that having being recognised, participated in the process towards, you know, the hope of achieving the referendum.

Audio excerpt — Pauline Hanson:

“He said indigenous people in remote communities were also struggling but didn't say why. I'll tell you why they're struggling, because the elites and activists of the Aboriginal industry like Pearson are responsible for it. They are responsible for entrenching a disadvantage so their tax payer gravy train…”

Audio excerpt — Sky News Commentator:

“This is not about uniting Australia, this is about insulting our intelligence and demanding that we succumb to what these elites want.”

Audio excerpt — Jacinta Price:

“If we get people of Aboriginal descent continually who are in the, you know, in the elite of this country who are turning around and continually saying, you know, it's all the fault of the white man...”

THOMAS:

This is just nonsense, really, that we should think that people that have done so much hard work should suddenly be seen as elites and not listened to. I don't think there's any other profession where you, you know, your experts should be ignored. You know, it's just a ridiculous argument and we heard it, so I addressed that.

And, you know, the other one is how people say that all Australians are treated the same, that Indigenous people are equal as it stands today. And you need only look at the statistics to understand that that isn't true. You know, what should be common sense is that Indigenous people are human. You know, we're just like anyone else as in our ability to have full and healthy lives. And there must be something wrong, there must be something unequal if you have such unequal statistics and, you know, it's a racist notion in itself to think that the incarceration rates, the life expectancy gap, is somehow the fault of Indigenous people and our communities.

DANIEL:

Despite the defeat, the Yes campaign garnered 6.2 million votes, rallied thousands of volunteers to the cause. What's happened with all that energy? Has there been any planning on how to tap into that momentum since the defeat?

THOMAS:

Yeah, I think, I think a lot of people were, you know, down in the doldrums, really, and that's understandable. You know, people put their hearts and souls into this, you know, they put themselves in front of the most nasty elements of Australia that were stirred up by some really nasty people that would do that for their own political gain. And I referred to them in the book as “bad actors”. But, I think people are still asking the question, what's next? And I see some great work being done. There is work being done behind the scenes to create the ability for us to speak with, you know, one voice on common matters across the country. There's work being done behind the scenes on that. Allies for Uluru, you know, a whole lot of organisations have had a summit recently in Wollongong talking about how they go forward and continue their solidarity. I know that many of the social media groups are still together. You know, the Yes 23 social media groups, all those, you know, grassroots created movements, you know, reconciliation groups had a swell of membership and they're looking to continue. So I think they just needed guidance.

And, you know, one of the reasons I believed in a Voice so much was because we need that structure to give that guidance and to point in the direction that we need to go and bring people along with us. And that's very difficult without it and so I knew it would take some time, so I put together this book to give that guidance.

DANIEL:

After the break – what the future looks like through Thomas Mayo’s eyes.

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DANIEL:

Thomas, we've been talking about the past, particularly the referendum result. But as you've indicated, the book is just as much about the future as it is about the past. So what does that future look like?

THOMAS:

The future looks like justice and recognition for First Nations people, which is all we were trying to do last year. And it is what we'll continue to do. And what gives me hope brother is that, I know that young people voted yes. You know, generation Z, there was an overwhelming yes vote from young voters. And I think that those young people will continue to support this because they have had a completely different education to many older Australians and they don't hold the prejudices that older Australians have. And so that gives me great hope and I know that we will achieve what we tried to do last year. I know we will achieve justice and recognition for our people, it's just going to take more time. The other thing that gives me great hope is that every time we've been trying to achieve things, equal wages, you know, the right to vote, land rights, native title – we were always met with the answer ‘no’. And so, you know, we will achieve this goal. I put together a formula about how we get there. And that formula involves a people's movement, so continuing to build that understanding in our community, the familiarity that Australians have with us so that they can more easily discern what is a lie or what is truth about us. It involves organisations acting, which many organisations are through their reconciliation action plans and I think that is something that is on the rise still. Good government policies that ensure that there's a voice for Indigenous people, that we're consulted before decisions are made to give us self-determination. Combine those things, though, with consistency. And we've had each of those three things from time to time, but they've never been consistent. And that's how we get there.

DANIEL:

And have you been disappointed by the government seemingly walking away from its commitment to a Makarrata Commission? And where does that leave the idea of Truth and Treaty?

THOMAS:

I have been disappointed by that.

Audio excerpt — Senator Dorinda Cox:

“Minister, pre-election in 2022, your Labor conference adopted Makarrata as a policy. It was pre-costed at $27.7 million dollars and you even put $5.8 million dollars in the 2022 budget to commence work on establishing an independent Makarrata Commission to oversee processes for agreement and truth-telling. Why is this Labor Government now, particularly the prime minister, breaking this election promise to the Australian people and gaslighting First Nations people about this election promise?”

THOMAS:

And I am disappointed because I think there's a miscalculation here politically that somehow standing up for what is right when it comes to First Nations people is no longer popular, is no longer something that people want and is somehow going to lose them votes.

Audio excerpt — Minister for Indigenous Australians Malarndirri McCarthy:

“But as I said in the previous response, we learnt from the referendum and the pain and hardship that that created to First Nations people in this country was the fact that there was no bipartisan support. And we will not endeavour down that pathway without the support of the opposition…”

THOMAS:

I would rather see some backbone from our government to stand up to the opposite side that, you know, confused and fear mongered last year in the referendum and continue to do so. There is so much truth that is behind standing up against their lies and tactics of intimidation. And that's what I would rather see, a continuing vision and calling out the bad actors.

DANIEL:

And finally, a lot of what needs to be done will need to be done by future generations. Do you think they're ready to take up the challenge?

THOMAS:

Amongst all of those positive things that did happen last year was a whole lot of young people that stepped up to leadership, that stared down those tactics of intimidation. That, you know, I think built some resilience and some experience and will be much stronger going forward. So, yes, I think there is a new generation of Indigenous leaders that are coming through strong and will take us to that destination of justice and recognition for First Nations people.

DANIEL:

Thomas, thank you for your time.

THOMAS:

Thanks, Daniel.

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DANIEL:

Also in the news,

ASIO boss Mike Burgess says his comments about the security threshold for Palestinian visas have been misrepresented and distorted.

On ABC’s 7:30, Burgess reaffirmed that supporting a Palestinian homeland is not in itself a violent extremist ideology, while material or financial support to terrorist organisations such as Hamas is a security problem.

It was also revealed yesterday that more than 300 Palestinians applied for onshore protection visas in June and July, as their initial tourist visas reach their expiry.

More than 40,000 Palestinians have been killed since October 7.

And,

There’s been a major breakthrough in stem cell research as scientists from the Murdoch Children’s Research Institute have grown human blood stem cells in a lab for the first time ever.

When injected into mice, the lab grown blood stem cells became functional bone marrow in 50 per cent of cases – meaning they can carry oxygen and fight infections.

Scientists believe this new innovation could be the basis for new therapies for blood cancer in humans, replacing bone marrow destroyed by radiation and chemotherapy treatments.

I’m Daniel James, 7am will be back tomorrow.

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