[Theme Music Starts]

DANIEL:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Daniel James, this is 7am.

The LNP has been in the political wilderness in Queensland for most of the past three decades. But in a month’s time, that’s likely to change after an election campaign fought on youth crime.

Audio Excerpt - David Crisafulli:

“The youth crime crisis has changed the way Queenslanders live their life. Our faith in the safety of our community has been shaken.”

Audio Excerpt - News Presenter:

“Well youth crime is shaping up as election issue in the election in Queensland as well, so far…”

Audio Excerpt - David Crisafulli:

“Adult crime, adult time.”

DANIEL:

Yesterday LNP leader David Crisafulli announced courts would be able to access young people’s full criminal histories, even after they have turned 18. It’s a move legal experts say is cheap and won’t change rates of offending.

Audio Excerpt - David Crisafulli:

“Full criminal history should be there to be factored into any future decision. If government changes in October, they will be launched by Christmas.”

DANIEL:

But all this tough talk hides a more complicated story about why children commit crimes.

Today, we hear from a survivor of Queensland’s youth justice system about the impact of punitive policies and what helped her escape the cycle.

It’s Thursday, September 26.

[Theme Music Ends]

DANIEL:

Christine, thank you so much for speaking with us. Can you start by introducing yourself?

CHRISTINE:

Yeah, so my name is Christine. I live in Queensland. I'm a mum of three little girls and I currently work in the child and youth sector and have done so for a few years.

DANIEL:

We know that, in Queensland at the moment, there's a big push for action on youth crime and it's been dominating the election debate in Queensland. What we never hear from is young people who have actually been subject to the youth justice system. We know that you have, so I'm hoping we could talk about your own experience if that's okay.

CHRISTINE:

Yeah, definitely. So both my parents were addicted to methamphetamine. There was a lot of sexual abuse and physical abuse in the home and a lot of exposure to domestic violence. So, I was removed at the age of five years old. There'd been quite a few child protection concerns and notifications before that. I was in a couple of different foster care homes for a few years.

And my introduction to the youth justice system was around the age of 12, so I should have been in my final year of primary school at that point. I was on a child protection order, but was homeless at the time. I was living at a bus stop.

My first ever offence that I was arrested for was shoplifting and I had shoplifted Rice Bubbles and milk from the local Coles. That was my first interaction with police, and I was charged with the offence rather than given a caution. And in the same day, I was also charged with trespassing because they found that I had been sleeping at the bus stop and my belongings were there.

DANIEL:

Can you recall how you felt when the police arrested you and put you in the justice system? What was going through your mind?

CHRISTINE:

I remember being quite embarrassed and really quite upset. I was treated quite poorly by the police. They recognised my last name and could link that back to my family. So, I just remember being really, kind of, angry and also embarrassed.

And, and I also thought, you know, that once they had arrested me that they would not be able to release me back to homelessness. I kind of thought, oh, well, now somebody will have to call child safety and, and I'll be put in a house. But that didn't happen. They did release me just back out into the street. And I remember just being really hurt by that. And I don't think I felt that a lot as a kid, because I was so used to, kind of, being let down but that one really hurt me.

DANIEL:

So the police put you back out on the street. Can you tell me what it was like living on the streets and being homeless and what sort of community you had around you, what sort of people you would associate with?

CHRISTINE:

Yeah. So for me, there wasn't a lot of homeless youth around. There would be times where there would be a few, but often those young people were not on child protection orders so they were able to go to youth homelessness shelters. And I was too young for a homeless shelter and they also wouldn't take a child on a child protection order.

So most of my time being homeless was me keeping to myself and being alone or being around older, typically men, that had been homeless for long periods of time. And I would hang out with them and stay around them. I remember, you know, like trying to shower at public bathrooms and stuff. I would try and go near a beach was because often there was a shower there. I would have to try and charge my phone in shopping centre car parks, but I would be moved on or be charged with another trespassing offence for being on, you know, shopping centre property when I'm not shopping.

I would try and sleep in the day as I could be awake at night, because typically at night was when it was most unsafe for a girl to be homeless and alone amongst a lot of older, typically males.

Being on a child protection order meant that there was one system that was supposed to care for me and provide protection, and they were unable to do that. It meant that no other systems could kind of step in because we have this reliance on the child protection system, right? So they weren't doing their job, there was no one else that was allowed to. So any decision, including accessing any health services or accessing, you know, any community program needed consent because I was under 18 and the state was my guardian. So it would appear on paper, right, that I have an active guardian who's able to provide consent. However, that wasn't the case.

There were quite a few times that I did do things that I knew could get me caught, and I knew would be just enough to get me into youth detention so I could keep myself safe for a short period of time. I could sleep at night. I didn't have to worry about strangers and keeping myself safe. It meant I was fed and I knew what time my meal would come at. I could have a shower. I would have clean clothing, and a roof over my head. So going to juvie was my best option to keep myself safe.

DANIEL:

Christine’s story isn’t unique. An Auditor General’s report into youth crime in Queensland points to the fact that many young offenders are themselves victims. Victims of abuse, neglect, family violence and intergenerational trauma. These are young people with no options and little prospect, no levers to pull in order to change their predicament.

They experience poor health, mental health issues and behavioural disorders. Invariably, it's healthcare they need, but instead they are criminalised through the justice system, fodder for courts and for prisons.

The same report shows that for the most part, youth crime in Queensland is actually stable and in some areas tracking down.

But a spate of high profile and incredibly distressing violent crimes have led to a political situation where both major parties are flexing their tough on crime credentials.

Audio Excerpt - News Reporter 1:

“Five teenagers are tonight under arrest in relation to the stabbing death of a Queensland grandmother in a shopping centre carpark.”

Audio Excerpt - News Reporter 2:

“The teenager who stabbed North Lakes mum Emma Lovell has pleaded guilty to murder in a sudden and surprise development.”

Audio Excerpt - News Reporter 3:

“A teenage boy has been charged with the murders of two people after a crash in an allegedly stolen four wheel drive on Brisbane's bayside.”

CHRISTINE:

Yeah, I think those are really horrific things that occurred and there's nothing anybody can say to, to make that better. Those types of crime, that's not my experience. Those aren't things that I engaged in or that people I knew and have now worked with as an adult. Those aren't typical of what I'm seeing. Young people, they're offending, it's a lot of like survival crime type of stuff. And we need to address the root cause of offending, why it's happening. What's going on for those young people? Are there undiagnosed disabilities? Because we know that's a major issue. And until we can adequately address all of those concerns, we can't expect to see the youth crime rates get significantly better.

DANIEL:

After the break, what it’s actually like for a child in an adult watch house.

[Advertisement]

DANIEL:

Recently horrific footage has emerged showing the way children have been treated in some of the adult holding cells in Queensland.

Audio Excerpt - Young Person in Adult Holding Cell:

“It’s too cold in here! It’s too cold in here! It is too cold in here!

DANIEL:

The video shows young people panicked, struggling to breathe, and locked in freezing cold cells with adult prisoners in other cells just metres away.

Audio Excerpt - Young Person in Adult Holding Cell:

“It really hurts.”

Audio Excerpt - Prison Officer:

“You just get back to your cell. You’re being silly.”

DANIEL:

As a child, Christine spent time in adult watch houses. So that footage, while upsetting, didn’t shock her.

CHRISTINE:

Yeah, so I would really like to go to juvie for the protection but the watchhouse in between was what was quite scary. Often I would be the only, or one of very few, children in the watchhouse with typically a lot of intoxicated adults, usually men.

So I remember one time, I would have been about 12 or 13, in a watchhouse and in a cell across from me there was a man who had, you know, exposed his genitals to me and was yelling out to me some quite gross things and I just had to sit there. There was nowhere I could go to escape that. And I think, for me, like, I have quite a history of childhood trauma and stuff, so those types of experiences really impacted me and my mental health.

There were times where, like, female sanitary products were denied. We didn't have access to that and police would laugh. There was no moving of other adults who were being quite aggressive or indecently exposing themselves. There was no checking in to see if I was okay or if I, if I needed anything. Nothing like that.

DANIEL:

Queensland Police have recently launched an investigation in the state's 63 lockups. Do you have any confidence in Queensland Police's ability to investigate itself?

CHRISTINE:

As long as we have the people that are causing harm, I don't think that we could ever expect a thorough ethical investigation be done into their own behaviour. I think what's necessary is an independent oversight body having access to watchhouses at all times, but also to do that investigation because, you know, people don't feel safe to make a complaint about the police whilst they're still dealing with them. So I, I just think the number of complaints would be quite low compared to the amount of harm and their ability to investigate themself would, would not be good.

DANIEL:

Christine, we're a month out from the state election. As we know, It's being fought on youth crime. The LNP is looking like they will win with their policy of adult crime for adult time. You stopped committing crimes at 18, but for very different reasons. Can you tell us why?

CHRISTINE:

Look, I think for every, every young person is different and all of their circumstances are different. There are a lot of children that are in the youth justice system that will continue their life journey through the adult system. I think for, for me my offending, it did stop at 18 but it wasn't because I was worried about going to the adult prison. It was because I then left the child protection system and I got housing and I got that holistic wraparound support that addressed all of my needs. And until my basic needs were met, like shelter and food, I wasn't able to address my mental health concerns or other issues going on in my life. So, and I think that's true for a lot of young people. Once I turned 18 and that, that weird red tape that we have around children on child protection orders was removed, I was actually able to access all of these community supports that really actually did help and did change the way my life was heading.

And for other young people, unfortunately, they'll continue their journey through the adult systems because there was never enough adequate intervention in their lives.

DANIEL:

So what does your experience from both a personal and professional perspective tell you about how we might begin to address youth offending and deal with some of the traumas that underpin it all?

CHRISTINE:

I think we'll always need an individualised response. You can have two young people, same age, same gender, same area, but their needs will be very different. So any type of blanket rule and policies and that type of stuff will never really work. We need to ensure that a child's basic needs are met before we expect them to engage in other programs. You know, like we have, we have kids that are homeless, they've exited detention, they're homeless, but we expect them to attend Youth Justice four times a week to check in. And if they don't, then they're going to be arrested for a breach of bail conditions. But if they're homeless, how are we expecting them to be able to, you know, make their way to these providers and get that support? Like, we can't expect that of children.

So I think addressing their basic needs like shelter, food and then moving on to things like mental health, education, anything else that they may need in their life.

We shouldn't have a youth justice system that is so highly politicised. That's what we have and I think the general public, most people aren't educated on, you know, like, why youth crime occurs and the, the driving factors. And, and it's not, I'm not saying they should be, but I think if we're going to put the spotlight on these violent crimes that we know are the minority of offences, we should also be talking about real solutions for that. And that's not adult time for adult crime. That's addressing why the crime is happening and stopping it. And until we can address those concerns we can’t expect to see the youth crime rates get significantly better.

DANIEL:

And finally, Christine, what do you wish everyone could know about the children currently placed in the youth justice system? Well, what is it like for them being in that system as we speak?

CHRISTINE:

I think, you know, they're not looked at as children that are worthy of love and being cared for. But at the end of the day they are children, just like your children and my children and every other child that we see. And the fact that they've offended doesn't mean that suddenly they're not worthy of love. It doesn't mean that suddenly that they don't deserve to have their rights upheld. I just wish that people would look at them like children that just need love and care. I think we forget that, that those kids are longing for that.

DANIEL:

Christine, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

CHRISTINE:

Thank you for having me.

DANIEL:

Just a note, we’ve changed Christine’s name to protect her privacy.

[Advertisement]

[Theme Music Starts]

DANIEL:

Also in the news today,

Thailand has become the first country in South-East Asia to recognise same-sex marriage.

The landmark decision grants full legal, financial and medical rights for marriage partners of any gender.

The new law will take effect in 120 days.

And, the Bureau of Meteorology has issued a statement of apology for sending out a false tsunami warning through its weather app.

The test warning was sent out yesterday, between 11am and 12pm AEST, as part of a planned transition to a new early warning system software.

The Bureau has reiterated there is no threat of a tsunami for Australians.

I’m Daniel James, this is 7am. See you tomorrow.

[Theme Music Ends]

[Advertisement]