[Theme Music Starts]

RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am.

He published secret documents that give us the best insights into the US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but Julian Assange will likely be extradited to the US to face charges that could add up to 175 years in prison.

In the last couple of weeks, Assange has received his first visit from an Australian high commissioner in London, and foreign minister Penny Wong is publicly saying that he’s been locked up for far too long.

But is there more the Australian government could be doing? Or is this really a matter for the courts alone? And what are the limits of diplomacy?

Today, lawyer for Julian Assange, Jennifer Robinson, fresh from meeting Penny Wong, on why this government is doing more, but still not enough if it wants to free him.

It’s Monday, April 24.

[Theme Music Ends]

RUBY:

Jennifer, could we begin with the case Julian Assange is facing. He was arrested in London in 2019, and he was charged with conspiring with US whistleblower, Chelsea Manning, to gain access to government computers as part of a 2010 leak by WikiLeaks. You’ve been representing him during this time. What is his defence against those charges?

JENNIFER:

Well, Julian faces 18 separate charges, 17 of those under the Espionage Act, which is an antiquated piece of legislation. Those charges relate to receipt, possession and publication of national defence information, classified information. There is a reason why we have editorials from the Washington Post, The New York Times and a number of different mainstream media outlets saying that this indictment criminalises public interest journalistic activity and conduct that these newspapers engage in all day, every day. And it's why the Freedom of the Press Foundation calls it the most terrifying threat to free speech in the 21st century.

So Julian faces 175 years in prison under those charges. And for the very same publications for which he won the Walkley Award for most outstanding contribution to journalism in 2011. So these are publications that showed the U.S. killing journalists and civilians in Iraq, that showed human rights abuse and corruption the world over, evidence of war crimes and documents that have been used, including by myself in the International Court of Justice, and other lawyers in important international cases. So massive public interest. And yet Julian sits in a high security prison in London. This is an Australian citizen who's been in some form of detention for 13 years, since I've been working for him as a lawyer, and suffered a stroke recently in prison. It's a humanitarian question as well, it's not just one of free speech. And I certainly hope the Australian Government is doing everything that it can and we are pressing them to do everything that it can to end it.

RUBY:

Right. And in terms of the Australian government and what it can do, just a few days ago, Penny Wong was asked about Assange’s case at the Press Club.

Archival tape – Reporter 1:

Thank you on behalf of the club for expressing concern about the detention of Evan Gershkovich,the Wall Street Journal reporter who's currently detained in Russia.

RUBY:

She was asked whether international concern over the detainment of an US journalist in Russia, on spying charges - whether that would prompt the Australian government to do more to secure Assange's release from the UK.

Archival tape – Reporter 2:

Is now the time to step up Australian diplomatic pressure to secure the release of Julian Assange?

RUBY:

And she responded by saying that the case against Assange has been going on for too long

Archival tape – Penny Wong:

His case has dragged on for too long. We think that it should be brought to a close. That's our public position and that reflects what we have communicated

RUBY:

And that the government, her government, would continue to press for his release.

Archival tape – Penny Wong:

What I can say to you is we are very clear about our view. There are obviously limits to what you can do, in terms of another country's legal proceedings. And we're not a party to those proceedings. We can't intervene in those proceedings, just as the UK and the US can't intervene in our legal proceedings.

RUBY:

What did you make of her comments?

JENNIFER:

She was right in her comments. And it's all good and well, though to say enough is enough and they continue to press, but what we want to see is action.

The kinds of language we're seeing from Secretary Blinken, the secretary of state in the United States, is that Russia should immediately release this American journalist who's been charged with espionage.

Archival tape – Secretary Blinken:

In my own mind, there's no doubt that he's being wrongfully detained by Russia, which is exactly what I said to Foreign Minister Lavrov when I spoke to him over the weekend and insisted that Evan be released immediately.

JENNIFER:

There is some irony in the United States calling on another government to end the prosecution for espionage of a journalist when an Australian journalist is being prosecuted for espionage by the United States.

If the US Secretary of State is calling for the immediate release of American journalists facing these kinds of charges, then why isn't our Foreign Minister asking the same of our ally, calling for Julian's immediate release? That is the standard the U.S. has set, and it is the standard that our government should be taking.

We continue to make the same ask of Penny Wong as Foreign Minister, as we have of governments before the current Labour government, which is to exercise diplomatic protection over Julian Assange as an Australian citizen, and advocate to the United States to drop this prosecution, which of course is a dangerous precedent for free speech, is creating terrible health problems for Julian because of the length of his detention and his health complications as a result, but also because he's an Australian citizen and it is the obligation of the government to take action.

So we continue to have high level conversations with the Foreign Minister, with the Prime Minister and with the Government about trying to resolve this case as soon as possible, because as the government themselves now finally say, enough is enough.

RUBY:

And Assange has sat in that high security prison in London for four years now, and for most of that time there haven't been any consular visits. There's been no Australian official that has gone to see Assange since 2019. But that all changed a few weeks ago. Australia’s High Commissioner to the UK, Stephen Smith, he visited Assange. What do you know about the visit and how significant it was?

JENNIFER:

It is significant that the current Australian government has taken a position that enough is enough. We had radio silence from successive governments for many years. I've represented Julian since 2010 and I have been coming back to Canberra, meeting MPs, meeting government officials, pressing them to take action for this Australian citizen. And it is only this Labour government that has actually taken action towards doing something. So the fact that the High Commissioner visited him in recent weeks is a positive sign. I think it is a reflection of the current Government's policy and commitment towards resolving the case, but we need to see more action and what we think will resolve the case is negotiating an outcome with the United States where Julian can return home to Australia and so that this prosecution is ended. It is setting a dangerous precedent that other governments, we see now in Russia, are using against journalists elsewhere. And for a government that purports to bring democracy to the world and be the gold standard of free speech protection, this case is really causing problems for them and diminishing their moral authority around the world. So for Australia, this is an Australian citizen and an award winning Australian journalist and publisher, and it is absurd that he still remains in a prison. It's 2023.

RUBY:

Right so you would like to see him returned home, but how much hope do you have of that actually happening? Because for a long time the Australian Government has repeatedly said that Assange has received the standard diplomatic support that an Australian in custody overseas would receive. So, if that’s been the line in the past, by previous governments, to what extent is this visit by Stephen Smith and these comments from Penny Wong different to what we’ve seen come before?

JENNIFER:

It is different. There is a real change. Prime Minister Albanese has said specifically and publicly that he's raised the matter with the United States. That is not the messaging that we were getting from the Australian Government previously. And frankly, the inaction of the Australian Government and their silence, successive governments, both Labour and Liberal over a decade, enabled the indictment against Julian Assange to happen.

Had Australia protested that, we would not be in this position right now. And it is now the current government that has taken a different position that we're very pleased about. The question is though, they've been in power for a year now, how long will this take to resolve?

They've said it's a priority. But the Australian public and, I think all journalists, all of Julian's journalist colleagues, will be watching and waiting to see what they're going to do.

So what will happen if another Australian journalist, in another country around the world, gets in trouble? What is the Australian Government willing to do to protect its citizens and to protect Australian journalists? That's the question.

RUBY:

We’ll be back in a moment.

[Advertisement]

RUBY:

Jennifer, there is another important moment that will arise soon, in terms of Julian Assange’s case. The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, has upcoming meetings with the US President Joe Biden, and UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak. What are you hoping that he will say to them about Julian Assange?

JENNIFER:

We would like to see, as we continue to press publicly and privately, the Prime Minister to continue to raise Julian's case with the U.S. and the United Kingdom. We would like to see Julian released. He shouldn't be in prison, he's been in prison far too long and the indictment that he faces is a direct threat to freedom of speech, not just in the United States, but globally. So there are principled reasons, there are national reasons, associated with his Australian citizenship, that the Australian government ought to be doing this, and we will continue to press them to do so.

The simplest way for this matter to be resolved is for the U.S. to respect its own constitution and its own policy on not prosecuting journalists, and put an end to this political prosecution that was started by Trump, who called the media the enemy of the people. That's what the Biden administration should do and that's what the Australian government ought to be asking them to do.

RUBY:

And, I mean, in the past, Penny Wong has said that there are limits to what diplomacy can achieve. Do you accept that the Australian Government has limited power when it comes to this?

JENNIFER:

I do not accept that the Australian Government is limited in their ability to press for the release of this Australian citizen. We are the U.S.’s closest ally, we've just signed a huge defence deal, with the AUCAS deal, with the United States. We ought to have the leverage and the ability to ask for the return of an Australian citizen. And in fact, John Howard and his government was able to negotiate the release of David Hicks, who was accused of terrorism offences. Why can't this Government bring home an award winning Australian journalist?

RUBY:

And as it stands, though, there is a U.S. extradition order in place. And last week more than 50 Australian MPs and senators signed a letter to the U.S. Attorney General, urging him to end the pursuit of Assange. And he also got a letter from several US congresswomen, calling for the Department of Justice to stop that extradition order. Do you see any of this advocacy having an impact?

JENNIFER:

I believe it is having an impact and I'm very grateful to all of the MPs that put their name to that letter, calling on Biden to drop the prosecution against Assange.

Archival tape – News anchor:

The full list of signatories of this letter are representatives Rashida Tlaib, Cori Bush, Greg Kaiser, Jamaal Bowman, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley, and Ilhan Omar.

JENNIFER:

But it's not just in the U.S. as well. We're also seeing large numbers of MPs in Brazil signing letters to call for Assange to be released. We've seen the President of Mexico, AMLO, raise concerns.

Archival tape – AMLO:

I am asking them to release Julian Assange. And I am not going to stop asking for his freedom.

JENNIFER:

We've seen the president of Brazil, President Lula, raising questions.

Archival tape – Lula:

President Lula speech.

JENNIFER:

So Australia is not alone, and in fact, we're seeing other governments raise this case with the president of the United States, as the Australian Government has, and more so. It is important that the Australian public continues to raise questions with their local MP, it is important that our parliament, and our MP’s and senators, continue to raise this and put pressure on the government to do the right thing in this case.

Archival tape – Monique Ryan:

Will the government intervene to bring Mr. Assange home?

Archival tape – House speaker:

Call to the Prime Minister.

Archival tape – Albanese:

I thank the member for Kooyong for her question and she raises an issue that is of great interest to many Australians.

JENNIFER:

This global concern for this case, and I think the political pressure is mounting in a way that will hopefully help us to resolve it.

RUBY:

And in the meantime, Jennifer, can you tell me a bit more about Julian Assange's health and the conditions that he's living in at the moment? What is life like for him right now, and what are your concerns as his imprisonment continues?

JENNIFER:

Julian obviously is suffering significantly because of the long term impact of the persecution that he's faced, the pressure that he's been under, and the conditions that he's been held in since 2010. So since I have represented him as a lawyer, it's 13 long years now. He has been under in prison, in solitary confinement. He was then in house arrest. He then sought asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy, which was a ground floor flat, there was nowhere for him to go outside. He did not step foot outside for seven and a half years. He was not allowed to leave for medical treatment. He was not allowed to leave for exercise. The medical evidence in our extradition case showed that if he's extradited to the United States, he will commit suicide. This is a question of his life and death. And the period of time he's had in detention will have long lasting impacts on his health.

I remain very concerned about him. This is why it's so urgent that we get him out of prison.

RUBY:

Jennifer, thank you so much for your time.

JENNIFER:

You're very welcome. Thank you for having me on.

[Advertisement]

[Theme Music Starts]

RUBY:

Also in the news today…

The US Supreme Court has ruled that the abortion drug, mifepristone, should remain available, while a legal case on its future continues.

A Texas judge had earlier come to the conclusion, access to the drug for the purposes of abortion was invalid, a ruling that has now been appealed by the Biden administration.

The ongoing case over the drug could be the most significant legal case for abortion access since the overturning of Roe v Wade last year.

And,

The editor of a German magazine has been sacked after running an interview with former Formula 1 champion, Michael Schumacher, which was entirely generated by Artificial Intelligence.

Schumacher himself has not been seen in public since a 2013 accident that left him with a brain injury.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am. See you tomorrow.

[Theme Music Ends]