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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media. I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am.

Some of the biggest stories and characters in Australian politics could soon be under the searing scrutiny of the National Anti-Corruption Commission.

Fresh referrals appear likely to be made in the coming days.

But not everyone is warmly welcoming the new corruption watchdog to federal politics.

Today, columnist for The Saturday Paper, Paul Bongiorno, on how the opening of the NACC has been met by our politicians.

It’s Friday, July 7.

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RUBY:

So, Paul, this week, corruption has been in the headlines. The New South Wales Premier, Gladys Berejiklian, became one of the most high profile politicians we've ever had to be found corrupt. Tell me about what this finding stirred up in Canberra.

PAUL:

Hi Ruby. Well it stirred up quite a bit in Canberra, particularly from the Liberal Leader — the alternative Prime Minister of Australia — Peter Dutton. Now his reaction takes on, in my view, a new significance, or a greater significance, because it was virtually on the eve of the new National Anti-Corruption Commission in Canberra beginning its work. Dutton's reaction to the findings of the Independent Commission Against Corruption in Sydney tends to indicate that if one of these commissions finds against somebody on his own side of politics, then he won't hesitate to undermine the credibility of that corruption commission in favour of the reputation, or the confected image, of his ally in the Liberal Party.

Archival tape – Peter Dutton:

“In Gladys, I know somebody who is absolutely a wonderful person. She's first class, and what you see in public is what you get in private as well. She's just a very decent person. She chose a bum, basically, and he was a bad guy. And I think that she has paid a big price for that.”

PAUL:

Peter Dutton said she's a person of the highest integrity and “I think she should stand with her head held high.”

Archival tape – Peter Dutton:

“Her integrity is not in question. She's not a corrupt person. That's not the person that I know. And I think she should hold her head high. She had a bad relationship, as everybody does, and I hope that that's not the defining moment for her…”

PAUL:

Now, I think, to understand why these comments from Dutton are so jarring. We just have to look at what ICAC found in Sydney after a very long investigation, and after compiling two volumes of evidence to support its findings. Well, Peter Dutton, he believes that if you're going to find someone like Berejiklian, or some senior politician guilty of corruption, it should be the finding of a judge and jury. Which indicates that he has no real idea of what an integrity commission is about.

RUBY:

Yeah, this idea that findings of corruption should only be made by a judge and a jury. That's something that has come up from critics, both of this Berejiklian finding, and also the new anti-corruption commission that opened its doors this week. It really isn't the point, though, is it, of an anti-corruption commission?

PAUL:

No, it's not, Ruby. And I guess to get some historical perspective, the first anti-corruption commission in Australia was in New South Wales — that's the ICAC — and it was based on the model of the anti-corruption commission set up while Hong Kong was still a British colony in the 1970s. And I must say that the new Commissioner in Canberra understands exactly what he's been asked to do.

Archival tape – Paul Brereton:

“First and foremost, the people of the Commonwealth are no longer prepared to tolerate practices which might once have been the subject of, if not acceptance, at least acquiescence. You have clearly expressed the desire for a Commonwealth anti-corruption agency.”

PAUL:

Commissioner Brereton pointed out in his opening address on Monday, that he wasn't running a court of law, but an investigative body, applying standards of fairness, openness, transparency and accountability, increasingly demanded by the Australian people.

Archival tape – Paul Brereton:

“My aspiration is that this commission become, and be, a respected part of the machinery of our democracy. I want the Commission to have the reputation of being fearless but fair, independent and impartial. While the legislation gives us great powers. With that comes great responsibility.”

PAUL:

Now, historically in Hong Kong, the authorities there realised that a lot of the things that were disrupting and corroding the society of that city state as it was then, were actions that weren't encompassed in the criminal code, but nonetheless were very damaging. And the idea was to investigate behaviour and then to expose it, to name and shame it as a powerful disincentive for others to follow suit. For others to indulge in this unethical behaviour.

Archival tape – Paul Brereton:

“Above all, this Commission is the realisation of an aspiration of the people of the Commonwealth. We know that you are watching expectantly, and we are very conscious that it is in your interests and for your benefit that we must exercise our functions.”

PAUL:

Now, there's an interesting sidebar to all of this. Premier Nick Greiner, the Liberal Premier who in 1988 established the ICAC in Sydney. He did so, mainly in response to over a decade of New South Wales Labor governments that were mired in all sorts of scandals. Well, Ruby, he was the first victim of his new ICAC. They found one of the appointments he made was corrupt. And now a court on appeal overturned that finding. But to his credit, he then did not attack the credibility of the ICAC, understanding how important it was for this new agency that he created to continue its work.

RUBY:

An interesting precedent to set, Paul. Now that we have the NACC, it seems like every day there's speculation about the first referrals to it, what it could investigate. So has the opening of the NACC already had an effect in Canberra?

PAUL:

Well, it certainly has, Ruby. If we’re to take any notice of the fact that politicians are rushing at great pace to say that they're going to be referring — mainly their political opponents — to the NACC for investigation. Commissioner Paul Brereton spelt out some very important guidelines in his opening address on Monday. He pointed out that this is very serious work that he's undertaking. He said that corruption erodes public trust in government, the institutions of state, and it undermines democracy. And what pleased the Albanese government, was the fact that he paid due a reference to the fact that in delivering the NACC, Albanese was in fact delivering on an election promise. But, and I think this is very important, the new commissioner issued a stern warning that he didn't want his corruption commission turned into a political football. He said, “should it be sought to weaponize the Commission through inappropriate or unfounded referrals, I will not hesitate to use the power to make public statements if necessary, to avoid unfair damage to reputations and to say that the referral was inappropriate.” Now, I think that should be particularly comforting to ministers, and even prime ministers, because it's the nature of these corruption commissions, obviously, to inquire into decisions that are made by government, by ministers, and by agencies. So while the commission is there to keep them all honest, keep the bastards honest. If he's going to do it in a way that is fair, and aboveboard, and impartial, well, he'll maintain credibility and he'll certainly serve the nation very well.

RUBY:

We'll be back after this.

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RUBY:

Paul, I thought we could talk a little bit more about some of the things that the NACC could be investigating very soon. Let's begin with the case, it seems like it could be referred any day now, the case of Stuart Robert and Synergy 360. So how likely is it looking that that will end up before the NACC?

PAUL:

Well, it's a good question. And we should remember that the NACC is completely independent, that it can instigate its own inquiries, and that it doesn't have to act on every referral that's made to it. The Commissioner points out that he'll, in fact, triage these referrals. Some will be politely told, “no, we're not going to look at that.” But if some are very publicly made, he may well say that this referral is not appropriate. But Bill Shorten, the Government Services Minister, well, he's already indicated that he's asked his department in Services Australia to advise him what the next appropriate avenues are to investigate these serious allegations against Stuart Robert. And the Greens Justice spokesman, David Shoebridge, well he thinks the Commission needs to inquire further and deeper into the former Minister, Stuart Robert's dealings with that lobbying firm Synergy 360. You might remember there's $374 million of taxpayers funds spent here on contracts awarded to the company's clients, and allegations of kickbacks to Stuart Robert. Of course in all of this we have to remember that Stuart Robert strenuously denies he's done anything wrong. But Ruby, we don't have to wait a couple of years for a long time or a long term investigation from the NACC or others into Stuart Robert, the by-election for his seat in Fadden is in a couple of weeks time and Labor doorknockers are finding that people are angry with him, and disappointed in him. But the message they seem to be getting from a lot of them is, “Well, he's gone and I'll still be voting for the LNP.”

RUBY:

And Paul, just back to the NACC, there's also been this long standing public declaration by Linda Reynolds that she might refer this compensation payout that was made to Brittany Higgins to the body. So what do we know about whether that could really be investigated?

PAUL:

Well, it seems Reynolds has, in her sights, the payment made by the Commonwealth of Australia, the former employer of Brittany Higgins, for her treatment and experience while she was a staffer, not only in Reynolds office but also in Michaelia Cash’s office. And now Reynolds claims the settlement, believed to be over $1.5 million, was done, quote, “in unseemly haste.” And she suggests possible corrupt behaviour by the Albanese government. And now the Attorney General Mark Dreyfus, says this is simply not true, that the rules were followed, and in fact it was done by the Department acting at arm's length from the ministers. Of course his attorney General had to sign off on it, and government sources point out that the final settlement, which Reynolds claims was done in haste, was actually the end of a process that lasted in negotiations between Higgins lawyers and the Commonwealth for over 12 months. Now, whether Reynolds goes ahead with her complaint, and whether it meets the criteria that Brereton has put out, well, it's a very moot point. The former minister, you know, Ruby, risks Brereton, defending the reputation of Higgins publicly. If he goes ahead and investigates, and the investigations find no basis for this much publicised complaint.

RUBY:

And there's no shortage, Paul, of other potential referrals - there's the PwC scandal, there's Robodebt, there's so many that have been floated in recent days. And a lot of these matters being talked about, they’re some of the biggest political stories in the country. So do you think that the NACC has been given the power and the mandate to give the public clear answers on these, or do you think that we should temper our expectations?

PAUL:

Yes. Well, there's so much to play out. But there is no doubt that what we do have is a powerful NACC, an independent one with extensive powers. There is some controversy over whether it should have been given more power to hold public hearings. There are some experts that say that, basically, the restrictions are so great that we won't see any. The Attorney General, Mark Dreyfus, says this isn't true. He points to the fact that the commissioner is independent, and he has got the power to decide what an exceptional circumstance is. And you know, you'd have to say that, for example, if a Prime Minister in the future found themselves in the sort of pickle that Berejilkian was in, that that's pretty exceptional, and which we would expect to see a public hearing. The other thing, and I've already mentioned this, but I think it's pretty important to keep this in mind. We have in this inaugural commissioner for the NACC, somebody who's well aware that if he allows this commission to become nothing more than a political football, then it will lack credibility and it will lack efficacy. I'm fairly confident, given what we know of Brereton, not only in this role, but in his role in investigating war crimes in Afghanistan by Australian troops, that we have a man of integrity and courage.

RUBY:

Paul, thank you so much, and talk to you next time.

PAUL:

Thank you, Ruby, and all the best.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today …

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says opposition leader Peter Dutton is more interested in culture wars than the economy.

Peter Dutton had previously claimed that the Prime Minister’s obsession with the Voice to Parliament has distracted the government from better managing the economy.

Responding to the accusation, Anthony Albanese said Labor had been putting in place a range of cost-of-living relief measures.

And

The Home Affairs minister has labelled Donald Trump’s son a “big baby” and a “sore loser”, after he blamed the postponement of his Australian speaking tour on the Government.

Donald Trump Jr had been scheduled to speak in Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane later this month, but the organisers say they were forced to postpone the tour due to a visa delay.

In now deleted comments on twitter, Minister Clare O’Neill said Don Jr had been given a visa to come to Australia, but scrapped the tour over “poor ticket sales”.

7am is a daily show from The Monthly and The Saturday Paper.

It’s produced by Kara Jensen-Mackinnon, Zoltan Fecso, Cheyne Anderson, and Yeo Choong.

Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow. Our senior producer is Chris Dengate. Our editor is Scott Mitchell. Sarah McVeigh is our head of audio. Erik Jensen is our editor-in-chief.

Mixing by Andy Elston, Travis Evans, and Atticus Bastow.

Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio.

Today’s episode is actually the last you’ll hear from me in a while - I’m taking some time off to have a baby.

Next week, you’ll hear the familiar voice of Rick Morton - he’s guest hosting the show, with a limited series on robo-debt.

Then - the wonderful Ange McCormack will be taking over. Hello Ange and welcome to 7am!

ANGE:

Hey Ruby, so good to be here.

RUBY:

Its delightful to have you, and I’ve followed your work for a long time. We’ve worked together at the ABC, where you hosted Hack, you’ve worked at Four Corners. We did a crime series together a while ago. What would you like listeners of 7am to know about you before you start?

ANGE:

Well I want people listening right now to know how much I love and care about 7am. Because this is a really special show, and this is probably pretty cliche but I do have big shoes to fill. But I’m very excited to keep listeners company every day on the show.

RUBY:

Well, I hope you have a great time hosting, and I’m really looking forward to what you do with 7am.

ANGE:

Thanks Ruby. I promise to take good care of your podcast baby while you take care of your actual baby.

RUBY:

Good luck! I’ll be listening along with my baby, and see you next year!

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