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ANGE:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ange McCormack. This is 7am.

Over the weekend, Israel said it was entering its ‘second stage of war’ with Hamas.

Israel destroyed phone and internet capabilities in Gaza while a large number of Israeli troops crossed the border. The death toll of civilians is mounting daily.

Meanwhile, a majority of countries at the UN general assembly voted in support of a humanitarian truce.

So, why did Australia abstain from the vote?

Today, World Editor for The Saturday Paper Jonathan Pearlman, on what the ground invasion means for Gaza, and how the rest of the world is viewing the crisis in the Middle East.

It’s Tuesday, October 31st.

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ANGE:

Jonathan, Israel has announced that it's now entering the second stage of the war. And over the weekend, we saw large numbers of Israeli troops cross into Gaza for the first time. What do we know about what's going on in Gaza at the moment?

JONATHAN:

Well, it's hard at the best of times to know what's going on in a war as it unfolds. And on top of that, on Friday night, Israeli airstrikes took out Internet and phone reception in Gaza and some of that connectivity is now returning, but for a couple of days there was very limited information coming out via a few journalists and humanitarian organisations that were able to provide some updates.

Audio excerpt – Reporter:

“You don't see this very often in the Gaza wars over many years. Dismounted Israeli soldiers moving in, supported by tanks. The Israelis said this would be different to past incursions. And it is not least because it's the deadliest.”

JONATHAN:

What we do know, though, is that large numbers of the Israeli military has now crossed into Gaza and has been operating deep into the territory there.

We also know that the humanitarian situation in Gaza is terrible and continues to worsen. So far, 8,000 people in Gaza have been killed and we can expect the situation to worsen as ground operations continue. This new phase of the war that we're seeing is part of Israeli operations targeting Hamas, trying to remove Hamas from power and prevent Hamas from again being able to launch attacks inside Israel. Hamas operates from tunnels inside Gaza, deep underground. Israel says these tunnels are often based in civilian areas and civilian infrastructure, things like mosques and schools and hospitals.

And so as soon as we start to see a ground invasion that really targets Hamas, Hamas's operations, Hamas's infrastructure, it's going to lead to more damage and more deaths inside Gaza. And we saw over the weekend that Israel told a hospital in Gaza to evacuate, that was the Al-Quds hospital. There are thousands of people sheltering there for safety. Apparently, 12-14,000 people there, according to the director of the hospital. And, that is going to be an extremely difficult hospital to evacuate. There are patients there in ICU. There are babies in incubators. The World Health Organisation has said that it's impossible to evacuate patients from that hospital without putting them in danger. And it said that under international humanitarian law, health care must always be protected.

The Israeli military says that over the last few days of fighting, it's killed 55 Hamas leaders and that in just the first 24 hours after its ground offensive began, it had hit 450 Hamas targets.

ANGE:

And is this a ground invasion that we've heard so much speculation about? Are we witnessing, you know, a definitive turning point here that we might not return from?

JONATHAN:

In some ways it is. It's a turning point in a sense that we've seen days of Israeli airstrikes and now we're seeing troops and tanks cross over into Gaza for the first time.

Audio excerpt – Yoav Gallant (with English live translation):

“We are ready to do anything that’s possible. This is not a secondary mission. This is a national priority. We are committed to it.”

JONATHAN:

The Israeli Defence Minister, Yoav Gallant, has said that this phase could last for months and realistically years.

Audio excerpt – Yoav Gallant (with English live translation):

“This is not going to be a short war. It's going to be long. We should have patience.”

JONATHAN:

But the incursions that we're seeing so far don't appear to be aimed at controlling territory. They're very limited incursions. And it's been reported that the US is pressuring Israel to show restraint in these operations. I think for a number of reasons. One is that there's concerns about exactly what Israel's military operations are. It's a very, very tricky and difficult task to try to take on Hamas inside Gaza in densely populated civilian areaṣ. But it's also clear that this conflict is going to have broad repercussions across the region.

What we've seen already is that the conflict has broadened now, Hamas is backed by Iran. But we've also seen tensions in the north of Israel involving Hezbollah, which is based in Lebanon. It's also backed by Iran. Other Iranian proxies, including in Yemen, have launched drones and missiles which are believed to be targeting Israel or possibly American forces. And so what we're seeing beyond the Israeli operations in Gaza is a broader conflict spreading across the Middle East and we're seeing the international community getting increasingly involved. So while this ground incursion was starting in Gaza, we saw diplomatic leaders from around the world starting to discuss and debate the war at the United Nations. And, you know, we started to see how different countries are positioning themselves in relation to the conflict.

ANGE:

And can you tell me more about that debate and what was discussed there at the U.N. General Assembly?

Audio excerpt – Speaker 1:

“The 41st plenary meeting of the 10th Emergency Special session of the General Assembly is called to order.”

JONATHAN:

So the General Assembly met in New York on Friday, and it was voting on a draft resolution proposed by a group of Arab countries. And it was the Jordanian ambassador that brought forward the motion.

Audio excerpt – Jordanian Ambassador to the UN:

“Mr. President. Ladies and gentlemen, I stand before you today with a profound sense of duty as I present draft Resolution 25 titled Protection of Civilians and Upholding Legal and Humanitarian Obligations on behalf of that Arab Group.”

JONATHAN:

The resolution demanded all parties immediately and fully comply with the obligations under international human rights law, particularly in relation to protecting civilians.

Audio excerpt – Jordanian Ambassador to the UN:

“The consequences of the indiscriminate violence, the loss of countless innocent lives and the extensive destruction of civilian infrastructure are destined to leave a lasting mark on generations to come.”

JONATHAN:

It called for Israel to go back on its order for Palestinian civilians and UN staff and aid workers to evacuate the north of Gaza and go to the south.

Audio excerpt – Jordanian Ambassador to the UN:

“Do not support any effort to legitimise such atrocities as we are seeing now in a proposal that perpetuates to whitewash such unlawful and horrendous aggression against the Palestinian people in Gaza.”

JONATHAN:

And it called for the immediate and unconditional release of all civilians. Being illegally held captive and for humanitarian truce to allow aid into Gaza. U.N. General Assembly resolutions are not binding. They require a two thirds majority to pass. But they do give some sense of where different countries are lining up on a situation of international importance.

Audio excerpt – Speaker 2:

“Will all delegations confirm that their votes are accurately reflected on the screen. The voting has been completed.”

JONATHAN:

So what we saw once the vote happened was that passed 120 countries voted for it, including France, Ireland and New Zealand. 14 countries voted against including Israel and the US.

Audio excerpt – Speaker 3:

“This ridiculous resolution has the audacity to call for a truce. The goal of this resolution, the truth is that Israel should cease to defend itself against Hamas, so Hamas can light us on fire.”

JONATHAN:

And there were 45 countries that abstained.

The countries that abstained, the main concern they had was that the resolution did not condemn Hamas and the countries that abstained included the UK, Canada, some European countries, Germany, Italy, Greece and another country that abstained from the vote was Australia.

ANGE:

Coming up after the break - why Australia refused to vote on the UN motion calling for civilians to be protected.

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ANGE:

Jonathan, we're talking about this resolution in the U.N. General Assembly calling for a humanitarian truce, among other things. Australia was there and abstained from the vote. Can you explain why they did that?

JONATHAN:

So the Australian ambassador to the UN, James Larsen, said that Australia abstained with disappointment and that it was doing so because the resolution was incomplete and didn't name Hamas.

Audio excerpt – James Larsen:

“The resolution did not recognise the terror group Hamas as the perpetrator of the seven October attack. And Australia again explicitly calls for the immediate and unconditional release of hostages.”

JONATHAN:

He said we can affirm Israel's right to defend itself while also saying the way it does so matters in matters to innocent civilians who should not pay for the horrors perpetrated by Hamas.

Audio excerpt – James Larsen:

“We believe the General Assembly can affirm Israel's right to exist without denying longstanding and legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people, including to statehood. Aspirations, which Australia supports.”

JONATHAN:

So Australian leaders have been careful in the wording in relation to the conflict. Penny Wong has called for a humanitarian pause to allow in aid to Gaza, but hasn't called for a ceasefire or a complete ceasefire. And that's more or less in line with the US position. Meanwhile, we've seen the Greens pushing for a complete ceasefire, saying that Labor needs to work towards peace, not war in Gaza, in the Middle East.

And we've seen on the other side of politics, the Opposition Leader Peter Dutton saying that Australia should have gone further than just abstaining, that it should have joined with Israel and the US and voted against the motion entirely.

ANGE:

So why wouldn't Australia support the motion? As you mentioned, it's a non-binding vote and seemingly only called for the kind of things that Australian leaders are already calling for. So is there politics at play here?

JONATHAN:

Yes, it's certainly politics at play, and I think that Australia genuinely feels that the resolution should have included a reference to Hamas in a condemnation of Hamas, given the scale of the attacks that we saw on October seven. But, you know, I think we're seeing politics even playing out within the Labor Party. The Labor Party being a sort of ostensibly Center-Left party has elements more to the left and trade unions that have tended to be pro-Palestinian. But then it also has elements that are more to the right and more instinctively supportive of the US.

And I think Labor is still very mindful of being caught out on national security. That is something that goes back a long way and is fairly entrenched and obviously something that shaped the 2004 Australian election. So I think Labor's very mindful of that. Likewise, the Coalition is mindful of that, mindful of opportunities to try to stoke some of these tensions within the Labor Party.

ANGE:

And Jonathan, events in the Middle East are moving really quickly now. But you've said this war is something that could take or go on for months, if not years from where we sit today. Are we seeing the beginning of a war maybe with no clear end in the Middle East?

JONATHAN:

Yes, Well, that's the fear. We've seen conflicts in the Middle East dubbed forever wars like Iraq and Afghanistan, where there were really no clear end points in sight. And the two terms that we were not expecting. Right now, there's a real risk of escalation around the Middle East, particularly if Hezbollah is to get involved in some sort of full scale war between Israel and Hezbollah. And we see Israel effectively fighting two Iran backed groups on its northern and southern borders. That is a war that could easily spill out and have huge consequences across the region. And that's why we've seen the US moving its own forces into the region.

So there are big questions. Even as Israel got into Gaza, there are big questions facing it, which we don't really know the answers to. Can Hamas actually be toppled inside Gaza? Can it be replaced? And if it is ousted? Who would replace it and what would that mean for the long term future of Gaza? And those questions involve, you know, is it possible to achieve that while also trying to get the hostages out? It does seem to be a turning point for the Middle East, and it's very difficult to know where we will come out at the end of it and what the toll to the region is going to be.

ANGE:

Jonathan, thanks so much for your time today.

JONATHAN:

Thanks, Ange.

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ANGE:

Also in the news today…

The number of children killed in Gaza in the last three weeks surpassed the annual number of children killed in war zones since 2019, according to Save The Children.

The aid organisation said “With a further 1,000 children reported missing in Gaza assumed buried under the rubble, the death toll is likely much higher.”

And…

A letter signed by six living Australian Prime Ministers has supported Israel’s right to defend itself, saying that defeating Hamas is a legitimate objective of military operations.

The letter also called for “support and protection” of the civilian population of Gaza.

The only former Prime Minister to refuse to sign the letter was Paul Keating.

I’m Ange McCormack, this is 7am. We’ll be back again tomorrow.

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