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ANGE:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ange McCormack, this is 7am.

Coles and Woolworths are in the sights of a senate inquiry, which has been hearing evidence across Australia this week.

It’s looking into whether prices are set fairly, and what could be done to make them more reasonable.

But while that was happening, one of parliament's most colourful characters stole the show. Bob Katter has been ratcheting up a campaign of high-profile stunts to force the major parties to crackdown on supermarkets.

Today, columnist for The Saturday Paper Paul Bongiorno, on Bob Katter’s contradictions and how the crossbench could force the major parties to get tougher on the big two supermarkets.

It’s Friday, March 15.

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ANGE:

Paul, Bob Katter is probably familiar to a lot of our listeners as a very loud and colourful politician. When did you first come across him, though, and what's his story?

PAUL:

Well, have we got longer than 20 minutes to talk about Bob Katter? Well, I first met him when he was in the State Parliament in Queensland in the mid 1980s, would you believe? And he was actually the Aboriginal Affairs minister. His father, Bob Katter Senior, was a federal member for Kennedy, the seat that Bob himself now holds. Well, Bob left Queensland state politics in 1993, so our paths then crossed again when he came down to Canberra. And, his time in Canberra is marked by a lot of controversy. He fell out with the National Party and the Howard government. He doesn't support, you know, gun control and in fact he told me that, and this is going back a few years now, he told me that he goes to bed at night in north Queensland with a loaded shotgun under his pillow in case the Indonesians invade.

ANGE:

Under the pillow. That's quite a place to hold a firearm.

PAUL:

At the end of the day, you know, Bob's a bit of a walking contradiction. Many of his views, as we say, skewed to the right. For example, he was very homophobic, during the marriage equality campaign. He even maintained that there wasn't one gay person in the seat of Kennedy.

Audio Excerpt - Bob Katter:

“And truly, I really think this proposition deserves to be laughed at and ridiculed. It doesn't deserve any serious treatment at all.”

PAUL:

But over the years, he's popped up as really important on key reforms from the left. He hates the monarchy. He says his first allegiance is to the Australian people, and I find it hard to disagree with him on that.

Audio Excerpt - Bob Katter:

“When is this country going to grow up? You know, I am sorry we are not English anymore. We are Australians and we do not believe in aristocracy. We believe every man is born free and equal. That’s what we believe.”

PAUL:

But he's shocked people on Sky News by telling them he's really from the left.

Audio Excerpt - Bob Katter:

“You know, there's this lilypad left problem you know, and it's not hard left, I’m hard left, I belong to hard left, you're well aware of that.”

Audio Excerpt - Sky News Host:

“You’re a former trade unionist, you were Bob.”

Audio Excerpt - Bob Katter:

“I'm still a member of CFMEU.”

PAUL:

Now I've got to tell you that Bob Katter gets enormous support from the CFMEU, one of the hardest left unions in the country, and he owes them because they help man his booths and even with funding. So that raises eyebrows, but that's been happening for a long time. At the end of the day Ange, the only way to describe Bob Katter is to say he's an original and we probably won't see anyone quite like him again.

ANGE:

Yeah, he's definitely one of a kind Bob Katter. How has he been making headlines lately? What’s he been doing?

PAUL:

Well, Parliament isn't sitting so it's a chance for politicians to get out and about, visit constituents. And of course the parliamentary inquiries, both the Senate and the House of Representatives Inquiries, travel around the country taking evidence. One of those inquiries is into supermarket pricing, which was set up by the Greens in the Senate, and this week it went to the New South Wales town of Orange. And that's when Bob Katter popped up. He held a press conference outside the hearing room, flanked by two people wearing pig suits that represent the two big supermarkets. Unfortunately, not everyone liked this latest stunt.

Audio Excerpt - Ross Cadell:

“Because all you’re about is the stunt, and this is what you're doing now, isn't it? You're all about the word, never about the work.”

PAUL:

First term New South Wales Nationals Senator, Ross Cadell. Well, he started berating Katter, as Katter was trying to speak to the press.

Audio Excerpt - Ross Cadell:

“He thought he knew better than the people here.”

Audio Excerpt - Bob Katter:

“Don’t speak over me again. I’m warning you, don’t speak over me.”

Audio Excerpt - Ross Cadell:

“(Continuing) he thought he knew better than the people of Calare.”

Audio Excerpt - Bob Katter:

“Listen, listen to this. This boy won’t shut up, he won’t let anyone else have a say.”

PAUL:

Perhaps with a few more years under his belt, Caddell would have known how volatile Katter can be.

Audio Excerpt - Bob Katter:

“Why don't you spend a little bit of time attacking Coles and Woolworths instead of playing politics….”

Audio Excerpt - Ross Cadell:

“(interrupting) What do you think we’re doing here? Not you, I’ve got no problem with you Bob. I’ve got a problem with…”

PAUL:

So it was a pretty testy dust up, made all the television uses that night. But Ange, the interesting thing about it is that beneath the ridiculous scenes, there are some big issues at play here.

ANGE:

Yeah, right, so if we do look beyond those pig costumes and the confrontational shouting matches, what's going on here and how is Bob Katter involved?

PAUL:

Well, first of all, this inquiry is exposing some really interesting things, disturbing things about the supermarkets. On the day of the Katter dust up, the inquiry heard from independent farmers who warned that supermarket influence was driving prices so low for them that staples like apples would soon be impossible for them to grow.

Audio Excerpt - Apple Farmer:

“If they could pay the market price that they're paying at the moment, like it was apples, they would crucify apple farmers. The won’t be any family farms left.”

PAUL:

The next day the inquiry heard evidence in Victoria from independent supermarket chain Ritchies, which operates about 80 locations. Their CEO Fred Harrison said, we often get thwarted when we're trying to negotiate for a new site. The chain will come along at the last minute and offer more money, and we lose the site.

Audio Excerpt - Fred Harrison:

“Only in Australia do chain supermarkets open store after store, even where they have those stores in that market already.”

PAUL:

Harrison alleged this entrenched the market dominance of Coles and Woolworths, and prevented small operators from offering more choice.

Audio Excerpt - Fred Harrison:

“If you disrupt the chain's ability to saturate the market with new stores, you stop the chain's ability to maintain their dominance. I believe that is what Australian consumers want.”

PAUL:

And this brings us back to Bob Katter, because he's found himself in an interesting alliance with another crossbencher. You might remember that he and the Tasmanian independent, Andrew Wilkie, well they dressed up at Parliament House in pig costumes and held a news conference.

Audio Excerpt - Andrew Wilkie:

“(snorting like a pig) Well we're here to tell you about a very serious press conference at 11:15. My mate Bob and me are going to be talking about the supermarkets and how to rein them in. We'll have some very interesting material for you.”

Audio Excerpt - Bob Katter:

“(snorting like a pig)”

PAUL:

The other ally is the new independent Andrew Gee who, like Katter, quit the Nationals to sit on the crossbench. They announced their intention to introduce a private member's bill to reduce the dominance of the big two and prevent price gouging of fruit and vegetables.

And this is actually putting pressure on the major parties, the Libs, the Nats and Labor. The government is already anxious to show it gets it, but is so far unwilling to toughen Australia's anti-competition laws that like in the United States, you know, the citadel of capitalism actually busts up monopolies and forces divestment.

ANGE:

After the break, how the crossbench is putting pressure on the major parties to do more to bring down supermarket prices

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ANGE:

Paul, as the crossbench are now pushing back against the major supermarkets, what are the politics at play here? And who’s under the most pressure from this move?

PAUL:

Well the Coalition, particularly the nationals, need to retain voters in regional Australia where there's a lot of anger at the big two supermarkets, especially from their suppliers. But they're also hesitant to beat up too hard on massive employers and two powerful voices in corporate Australia, where they draw a lot of support. This means they're stuck between the urge to shut down crossbenchers like Katter, who are demanding more action, while trying to also speak out of the other side of their mouths and embody the frustration at the supermarkets. Well that's the position Nationals leader David Littleproud finds himself in. He went on Sky TV this week to claim his party was engaging, not with pig suits, but with intellect.

Audio Excerpt - Sky News Host:

“Ross Caddell and Bob Katter, you must have seen it on the news today, not the best behaviour from your senator there.”

Audio Excerpt - David Littleproud:

“No, I think what Ross was doing is expressing the frustration of the farmers that we're hearing, and consumers that they're getting touched up by these supermarkets, and instead of actually having an adult debate about policy shifts we get people dressed up in pig suits. I mean, I think people expect more of their politicians.”

ANGE:

And promise that he and Peter Dutton would soon announce their own policy to improve competition to the big two supermarkets.

Audio Excerpt - David Littleproud:

“That's what Australians want. That's what Peter Dutton and I are working through. And if Bob Katter and Andrew Gee want to get dressed up in pig suits, and belittle that, then good luck to them.”

PAUL:

But Ange, with Parliament not sitting, it was a potent reminder that there are often interesting and relevant ideas coming from outside the big parties. And the indications are the independents and minor parties could have an even bigger impact at the next election.

ANGE:

Paul, we know that often Parliament and our political leaders can get carried away with the news of the day, but what are some of the ideas you're seeing rise to the surface which we could soon actually see on the agenda?

PAUL:

Well Ange, one idea that caught my attention was actually raised by a leader of the business community. At a business summit on Monday night, the new president of the Business Council of Australia Jeff Culbert, said that Australia's three year federal electoral cycle created a crisis of short term thinking. He said it meant that we're permanently in election mode and governments are in a constant fight for survival. Instead, Culbert suggested moving to four year terms like we now have in all the states and territories. In the past, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese himself has expressed his desire to move to four year terms.

Now Peter Dutton was at the same business summit, and he was asked about it, and he expressed backing for the idea. In fact he said if Albanese has, quote, got a desire to proceed with it despite our public differences, we have a pretty good working relationship so I'd be happy to have a conversation with him.

Now to change federal parliamentary terms we have to hold a referendum, because it's embedded in the Constitution. And we all remember what Peter Dutton did last year when he dangled the chance of bipartisanship over The Voice to Parliament Referendum, before opting to go for what looked like political expediency, and turning the referendum into a chance to thwart Labor and Anthony Albanese. As one senior Labor insider told me, they wouldn't trust Dutton on supporting any referendum put up by a Labor Prime Minister. And besides, Labor is now keen to show it is firmly on the case of addressing the cost of living crisis, and has begun unveiling initiatives that only a party of government can do. Like Chalmers on Monday at the business summit, announcing the elimination of almost 500 so-called nuisance tariffs, which he said, will save businesses over $30 million a year in compliance. And there'll be more of these sorts of announcements before the May budget, which the treasurer says, will be focusing on getting the anaemic economy moving again as well as fighting inflation.

ANGE:

And finally Paul, as we close in on the budget and perhaps even move towards an election, how do you see the role of some of these voices outside the two major parties shaping up? Will they, you know, be able to force any of these ideas onto the agenda? Or will it really just be a pure contest between Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton?

PAUL:

Yes, I think that scenario is pretty rapidly changing. The trend for voters giving their first preference to independents and minor parties is getting stronger. The crossbench in the House of Representatives hasn't been this big for a very long time. And once independents get in, it's hard to dislodge them. And, they encourage others to have a red hot go. The current published opinion polls seem to be pointing to a hung parliament, with a minority Labor government. And now there's a strong argument to say this isn't a bad thing because it means policies have to be debated genuinely and more views get a look in, and you know what, that sounds like a healthier democracy to me.

ANGE:

Paul, thanks so much for your time today.

PAUL:

Thank you, Ange. Bye.

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ANGE:

Also in the news today...

The Prime Minister says Australia will not follow the United States’ threats to ban TikTok.

The US passed a bill this week that means the video sharing app will be banned if its parent company, ByteDance, isn’t sold to a company outside of China within six months. Anthony Albanese said while national security is always a priority, TikTok is used by many Australians for communicating.

And,

An Israeli army spokesperson has announced intentions to direct more than 1.4 million Palestinians, now sheltering in the city of Rafah, to make their way north to designated ‘humanitarian islands’ in central Gaza ahead of a planned offensive on the city.

The UN has expressed fears a military offensive into the densely crowded area would be a catastrophe, and aid groups have warned there is nowhere set up to shelter large numbers of displaced people in central Gaza.

7am is a daily show from The Monthly and The Saturday Paper.

It’s produced by Kara Jensen-Mackinnon, Zoltan Fecso and Cheyne Anderson.

Our senior producer is Chris Dengate. Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow.

Our editor is Scott Mitchell. Sarah McVeigh is our head of audio.

Erik Jensen is our editor-in-chief.

Mixing by Andy Elston, Travis Evans, and Atticus Bastow.

Our theme music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Audio.

I’m Ange McCormack. This is 7am. See you next week.

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