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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am.

A speaking tour claiming to quote “let women speak” has been at the centre of disturbing scenes across Australia.

In Melbourne, neo-Nazis stood on the steps of Victorian Parliament and openly performed the Nazi salute – while in Canberra last week, Senator Lidia Thorpe was tackled and held to the ground by police as she tried to protest the tour.

So who is this British woman touring Australia, provoking these scenes?

Contributor to The Saturday Paper and co-editor of the book Nothing to Hide: Voices of Trans and Gender Diverse Australia, Sam Elkin on the woman who calls herself Posie Parker.

It’s Monday March 27.

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RUBY:

Sam, just over a week ago, there was a protest — as well as a counter protest — at Victorian Parliament. And that protest was notable for several reasons. But I think the thing that shocked a lot of people was the presence of far right extremists. So, neo-Nazis who openly performed the Nazi salute. Tell me about what happened.

SAM:

Yeah, well, it was a strange day. It was a very hot Melbourne day when we all got together and they were, kind of, ragtag bunches of loosely aligned people.

There were plenty of anti-fascist protesters there with red flags, and printed out signs, and things like that.

Archival tape – Rally:

“Stand up, fight back!”

SAM:

There were plenty of people from the trans and gender diverse community, lots of them in N-95 masks and, you know, trying to be safe while being on a rally.

Archival tape – [Protestors]

And on the other side, there was about 30 or so women, an eclectic bunch, many of whom looked, like kind of surfey types or people that might hang out in Nimbin for example you know, like an eclectic crew of people.

Archival tape – Rally:

“I will not be silenced!”

SAM:

And then there were the really disturbing group of black clad Nazis from the National Socialist Network.

Archival tape – Protester:

“So these are the guys doing the heil Hitlers and facing off against the activists”

Archival tape – Protester:

“Come here you communist!”

SAM:

So an unusual grouping of people.

RUBY:

And so this protest actually came about because of a UK based activist. She calls herself Posie Parker. Her real name is Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull, and she's here in Australia on tour. Can you tell me about her and what it is that she's trying to do?

Archival tape – Kellie Jay Keen-Minshull:

“I’m just going to stand up on those steps and wave at all the boys who’ve come today. We’re going to say “hello boys” to those lovely men.”

SAM:

Yes. Well Keen-Minshull is a well-known UK based far right provocateur. She's been known to post very Islamophobic and racist tweets before, but really her main game is focusing on the trans and gender diverse community.

Archival tape – Sky News:

“In our studio we can speak to Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshell founder of the Womens’ Rights organisation Standing For Women.”

Archival tape – Reporter:

“Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull made headlines in 2018, with a billboard which bore the definition of a woman: “Adult. Human. Female.”

SAM:

She's called for our community to be sterilised. She's accused trans women in particular of stealing women's spaces, and of people providing gender affirming health care of mutilating children. She's a part of a group called Hands Across the Aisle, which aims to connect anti-trans radical feminist. You might have heard of them referred to as TERFS — or trans-exclusionary radical feminist — and she aims to connect these people with conservative Christian, anti-LGBTIQ groups. So that's really what her mission was here in Australia.

RUBY:

And can you talk me through, in a little bit more detail, what her agenda and the agenda more broadly of the anti-trans movement really is, because, as you know, she's calling her tour this “let women speak tour”, and she's presenting herself as someone who is an advocate for women. But what's really going on here?

SAM:

Yeah. Well, I've done a lot of reflecting on that because it is hard for me to know what her real agenda is. But certainly she uses the fig leaf of feminism to target and vilify the trans and gender diverse community, and I would say particularly focusing on transgender women. She's focussed her attacks on the issue of trans women in women's toilets, which has become a completely toxic issue in the United Kingdom. She wants to see a world in which people do not have access to gender affirming health care. I think she would agree with that. But the other more disturbing things she said, calling for us to be sterilised, for example, and this is moving into eugenics territory. So I would say that her agenda is quite nefarious and goes so beyond protecting so-called women's spaces, and calling for people like us not to exist anymore.

RUBY:

And the Victorian protests, that was just sort of one stop for her, wasn't it? Can you tell me about what else we've seen across the country?

SAM:

Yes. So she joined the speaking tour in Sydney on the 11th of March, and similarly it was joined by counter protesters, so trans rights protestors, and people who are concerned about the rise of fascism were all in attendance. And you know she courts controversy wherever she goes. In the states there have been examples of Keen-Minshull’s, you know, rallies being attended by Nazis. So this is certainly not an unusual thing to happen to her. This is part of her playbook. She's here to, you know, create a lot of noise and it's really disturbing that anti-trans campaigners who came down to Melbourne the other day didn't seem to be that concerned by the fact that Nazis were performing the Sieg Heil on the steps of Parliament. You know, these are the kind of moments in life where they’re genuinely draw jaw dropping.

You know, this is the kind of thing that you never expect to see in Australia. And the fact that they were not only not calling them out, you know, they had a PA system and a microphone there and they had every opportunity to say, “you know, thanks, but no thanks, you're not welcome here. We'd please like you to leave.” They didn't say anything like that. In fact, some of the women who were there for the anti-trans rally and to see Keen-Minshull were taking selfies, you know, in front of the Nazis.

So it’s terrifying. and I think it's rightly gotten everybody to wake up and see some of the threats that are occurring in this country.

RUBY:

Yeah. And so, can we talk a bit more about how those two groups have found themselves on the same side, how this intersection of ideologies works, where you have far right extremists and anti-trans campaigners standing together publicly. How that's happened and what that reveals about what they really want?

SAM:

Yeah, well, one thing that they have in common is that both groups have very strict notions of what a man, and what a woman, is. And they're very interested in policing and upholding those boundaries. Obviously, when you've got neo-Nazi ideology, it's very patriarchal, very focussed on upholding the role of the man as the provider and the protector, and presumably the woman to be, you know, at home cooking the food and doing the traditionally feminine tasks. I could see why Nazis would be attracted to anti-trans ideology.

And of course, it's difficult, honestly, to even talk about. But when you look at the 20th century, there's a terrible history of what happened to so-called degenerates during the Second World War and the legacy of the pink triangles.

Archival tape – Magnus Hirschfeld:

“The Nazis wanted to create a new elite, and they wanted to breed it. The state could not tolerate any pluralism, and a sexual diversion was considered heresy.”

SAM:

Magnus Hirschfeld's Institute for Sexology. He himself was a Jewish, left-wing, gay man. His institute was violently attacked by Nazi youth and over 20,000 books, precious, irreplaceable books about trans and gender diverse experiences, about the experiences of sexual minorities, gay and lesbian communities. You know, research which the world will never see again, was lost as a result of Nazi book burnings.

Archival tape – Magnus Hirschfeld:

“The whole persecution of the gays. The annihilation experiment is like a dress rehearsal for the later mass murder and mass persecution of huge groups of population, mostly the Eastern European Jews.”

SAM:

So the Nazis certainly have a long and chequered history of targeting sexual and gender minorities. So this is nothing new in that sense.

I think what it shows is that anti-trans rights activists like Keen-Minshull are prepared to work with anybody to get air time, and to advance her really conservative right wing agenda. And I think a lot of far right groups across the world particularly in places like the US, the UK, and here in Australia, at the moment, are looking for a common cause. You know, we've had the end of the lockdowns and the anti-vax debate has kind of shifted, or gone away now, and they're looking for people to target. And unfortunately for the trans community, we’re up right now.

You know, we are a community that is very small. We don't really have that many platforms to express ourselves. And the idea that we are somehow a threat to society as we know it, is both absurd and terrifying when you're on the other side of that.

RUBY:

We’ll be back in a moment.

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Archival tape – Reporter:

“The woman who is likely the world’s best known children’s author, is defending herself against growing accusations of transphobia, this is JK Rowling the creator of Harry Potter, of course.”

Archival tape – Al Jazeera Reporter:

“Some on both the left and right sides of the political spectrum argue that trans rights are a threat to womens’ rights. Just how dangerous is it to be transgender in the UK?”

Archival tape – Nicola Sturgeon:

“There are people who have opposed this bill that cloak themselves in women's rights to make it acceptable, but just as they’re transphobic you will also find they’re deeply misogynist, often homophobic, possibly some of them racist as well…”

RUBY:

Sam, we're talking about this kind of organised and growing anti-trans movement. Where did it begin? What are the conditions that are allowing it to flourish? And how is it being introduced in Australia? Where is it coming from?

SAM:

Well, in terms of where it began from the, sort of, anti-trans radical feminist or TERF perspective, people like Sheila Jeffries, for example, who's a retired University of Melbourne academic, who lived here in Melbourne for a long time. Her career was focussed on denigrating the trans community. She's written multiple books targeting trans women in particular. So, she's a big part of the ideological history of this movement. Janice Raymond in the United States, in 1979, published a really famous book, The Making of the Transsexual Empire. They’re the kind of… some of the ideological underpinnings of the movement. And that's been bubbling away for a long time.

We have our own, you know, home-grown TERFS here in Australia, unfortunately. So I can't say that it's entirely an imported movement. We've got the Victorian Women's Guild, which is run by Holly Lawford Smith, who's a prominent professor of philosophy at the University of Melbourne. She's been really active in, you know, the last five years, even trying to stir up anti-trans sentiment around the Victorian Births Deaths and Marriages campaign. There was, you know, a lot of public lectures and discussions about our right to exist, and our right to have documents that reflect our gender identity without having invasive genital surgery first. And they were, fortunately for us, unsuccessful in this difficult reform, but nonetheless they continue to organise.

So, certainly we have our own here in Victoria. They might not be as rich or as famous as people like J.K. Rowling, who is certainly, probably, the most influential trans-exclusionary radical feminist in the world today.

RUBY:

Yeah, I think that JK Rowling is the first person that you might think of then you’re thinking about this group of people. And obviously Keen-Minshull who is visiting Australia is also from the UK as well. So are these ideas from the UK, I suppose, getting fused with what we’re already seeing and hearing in Australia? Because this tour - it does seem quite organised?

SAM:

Well, that's right. This didn't happen by accident that Keen-Minshull ended up in Australia. She was sponsored by the Conservative Political Action Conference or CPAC network, as it's known, which is a really hard right conservative campaigning organisation that, you know, at the moment just gearing up to campaign against the Voice. So they've got an agenda, they're very clear about it, they've got a strategy and they're enacting it.

RUBY:

And I suppose the question is, how much support is she getting? And we've seen some politicians meet with her haven't these protests? People like Pauline Hanson and Malcolm Roberts.

SAM:

Yeah, she's definitely carved a niche out for herself amongst the, you know, hard right conservative politicians here in Australia. Pauline Hanson, certainly, you know, would be interested in speaking to a right wing provocateur like her, similar kind of vibe, I suppose. But you know, here in Victoria it's very disappointing and alarming to see Moira Deeming who is Liberal Western metropolitan senator who's, you know, one of my representatives in my local area.

Archival tape – Moira Deeming:

“Alright! My name’s Moira Deeming I’m a newly elected MP in the Victorian Parliament.”

SAM:

Not only meeting with her and attending the rally, but using her, you know, very important time in the Victorian Parliament to campaign for people to support the Keen-Munshill tour of Australia and asking many people to attend.

Archival tape – Moira Deeming:

“People told me that I only got elected because nobody knew what I thought. But I’ve been doing this for 15 years, with my friends in the Greens Party and the Labor Party and every party conceivable…”

SAM:

And Moira Deeming’s views were well known. It's not like she'd been unclear or backwards in coming forwards about the fact that anti-trans ideology was really the centre of her interest as a politician. And nonetheless the Victorian Liberals chose to pre-select her. Whether or not Moira Deeming gets expelled from the Liberal Party, we're still stuck with her for the next four years.

RUBY:

Yeah right, because she’d still be there as an Independent. If we were to come back to the protests Sam - I suppose what you’re saying is it isn't really such a surprise to see neo-Nazis and anti-trans groups side by side, considering the ways in which those ideologies reinforce each other. The Victorian Government is moving to ban the Nazi salute, that doesn't address anti-trans rhetoric though does it?. So do you think that the government is doing enough to protect the trans community?

SAM:

When it was re-elected, the Andrews Government, one of the key promises to the LGBTIQ community was enhancing the anti-vilification protections, to extend to the LGBTIQ community. And my understanding is they are planning on delivering on that promise at some point. But certainly this is a crucial moment where any efforts that could be made to make that happen as soon as possible, I think now is the time we've seen why it's so important. This is an everyday issue for the trans and gender diverse community.

We, you know, are starting to see our events targeted. The city of Moonee Valley had an event for young people late last year that was gatecrashed by Nazis, that was in a park, just an end of year event for the Rainbow community. We had another event that the city of Stonnington and Victorian Pride Centre attempted to put on in December last year that was cancelled due to the threat of Nazis. This is happening. It's happening all the time.

And if it's not Nazis, it's far right anti-trans people doxing trans activists, or sharing offensive photos of them online, digging up pre-transition photos, and sharing their personal information about what their name was before they transitioned. You know, this happens all the time in our community, and it only adds to the ongoing disadvantages that we experience because of stigma and discrimination.

We're not a community that is collectively doing super well in terms of our mental health. What we need is an opportunity to live our lives with dignity and with a sense of purpose. We don't need to be further discriminated against. So the anti-vilification legislation can't come soon enough.

RUBY:

Sam, thank you so much for your time.

SAM:

Pleasure. Thank you.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today…

Labor has won government in NSW, with Chris Minns set to form government as the new premier.

Outgoing premier Dominic Perrottet said in his concession speech that he would also resign as the leader of the Liberal party, leaving the party in search of new leadership as Perrottet, who’s only 40-years-old, steps down.

The result leaves Tasmania as the only state with a Coalition government.

And,

Mass protests continue in France over president Emmanuel Macron's use of his executive powers to force through lifting the retirement age for most workers from 62 to 64.

Between 1.1 and 3.5 million French marched in protests across the country on Thursday last week, with ongoing protests forcing Britain's King Charles the third to abandon a trip to the country on Sunday.

Unions will hold another national day of action on Tuesday this week.

I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am, see you tomorrow.

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