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ASHLYNNE:

From Schwartz Media, I’m Ashlynne McGhee. This is 7am.

In workplaces across the country, it feels like there’s been a slow but steady reckoning on sexual harassment and discrimination.

Men in powerful positions have been publicly held to account and even sacked.

That moment of reckoning was supposed to have already come to the most high-profile workplace in the country - Parliament House, but a few years on, how much has it really changed?

Today, The Saturday Paper’s chief political correspondent Karen Barlow - on the challenges of policing parliamentarians and why alcohol is so ingrained in political culture.

It’s Thursday June 6.

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ASHLYNNE:

Karen, it's been two and a half years since Kate Jenkins handed down her damning review of the culture at Parliament House. What made you decide to check in now with the progress that's been made?

KAREN:

Look, one of the main reasons why I wanted to check in was just the fact that I talked to people in the building, Parliament House all the time about what is better about the place and what's not.

I talked to staffers. I talked to MPs, senators. And there's a real common thread about things are better but there's still a long way to go. They've noticed change, but there's still things that are happening around this building that include sexist comments, really some old attitudes. And it was worth to sort of dig around, you dig a little bit further and you talk to people who work here, and there's still bullying that goes on. There are still some concerning things that need to be investigated. There are structures that have been now put in place to help people, but it is not and very far from perfect around this building.

The other thing I would say the highlight recently of ending gendered violence.

Audio excerpt – Anthony Albanese:

“I am proud to be here with women, men, boys and girls saying we want violence against women and children to stop.”

KAREN:

One thing that really stood out to me was a statement that the Prime Minister said, which was, all governments need to do better.

Audio excerpt – Anthony Albanese:

“We’re here today to demand that governments of all levels must do better including my own, including every state and territory government.”

KAREN:

And that said to me, set the standard. It brought me right back to where are we setting the standards? And I really quickly found it's not hard to find that we're not setting the standard in this building of Parliament House.

Audio excerpt – Scott Morrison:

“I'm joined by the Minister for women, Minister, Foreign Affairs and the Minister for finance to release the Jenkins review. A little while ago, I had the opportunity to speak to Kate Jenkins and thank her for the tremendous work that she has done.”

Audio excerpt – Kate Jenkins:

“In March this year, following several people courageously sharing their experiences of bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault, the Australian Human Rights Commission was asked to conduct the independent review of Commonwealth Parliamentary workplaces.”

ASHLYNNE:

Karen, were you in the building when that report was handed in?

KAREN:

I was, and it was still shocking to read it all in one spot, because I guess a lot of this is, these are cases that are anonymous. That was the only way that these people felt that they could come forward, that this is a case of, you know, people wanting to not ruin their careers.

Audio excerpt – Kate Jenkins:

“Many people shared distressing experiences of bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault. Sometimes for the first time. They said these things could never be shared with anyone else. They did so with the hope that they could help make this workplace better for those who come after them.”

KAREN:

I think it's important to take a step back just to remind everyone that this important landmark report came from, when Brittany Higgins told us about what had happened to her inside Parliament House, the rape that happened inside a ministerial office, a rape which has now been proven to a civil standard. This is something that was ordered by the Morrison government, and it was something that, it wasn't just Brittany's story. It was many other staffers had come forward and said that there were inappropriate relationships, bullying, harassment.

And look, it found a toxic workplace. It found widespread bullying and harassment and cases of assault. 1 in 3 parliamentary workers in these Commonwealth parliamentary workplaces experienced sexual assault. That is a really high number of cases.

And one other one that stood out to me was the fact that female parliamentarians and these are the people that, I guess, up in the high area of power in this building. But still, female parliamentarians experienced 63%, cases of sexual harassment, and the national average is around a third. So that's really high. So there is some awful cases that were highlighted in the report, a case of a staffer pointing out the revolting and humiliating experience of having a male boss and male MP sticking his tongue down her throat. Just shocking accounts.

To find it all bundled up, and to read through these raw statistics of all these numbers, are actually cases of people who've suffered in this building. So it led to 28 recommendations to improve the situation around Parliament House. And, there is a promise, an election promise from the Albanese government to implement all of them on them.

ASHLYNNE:

What is it about Parliament that's created this culture and that makes it so hard to change?

KAREN:

This is a building that is like no other workplace in the country. This is a big building where there are, on any given day, 1000 people working in Parliament House and on a sitting day, somewhere between 4 and 5000 people. So it's not a small workplace.

This is a place that is highly charged, high pressure. It is full of, quite a few, I would say A-type personalities, that they are pressing themselves inside this building, which is like a hot boiler situation. There is so much pressure. It trickles down into the offices, which then trickles down into the non-political offices, the parliamentary libraries, there is long hours, people have come from all parts of the country, they’re away from home, and people deal with some of the pressure by drinking and that’s a cause for problems in itself.

It’s a hot topic about how this place is or isn’t getting better. And I did speak to a parliamentarian, a female parliamentarian. She told me that. “Yep. When I come to Canberra, I don't drink, I don't go out. And I've made sure that all my staff are female. That's just the way that I deal with it.” I've spoken to other female parliamentarians that don't go out in Canberra. I spoke to Lidia Thorpe, who has a case that's still ongoing with another senator, David Vam, and she told me that she doesn't go out in Canberra anymore and that she feels that it is still a boys club and that nothing has changed in this building.

ASHLYNNE:

After the break… why politicians don’t want to ban the booze.

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ASHLYNNE:

So Karen, people in Parliament House are telling you the culture hasn't changed enough when it comes to. Why is that? what happened to the 28 recommendations we got from the Jenkins report?

KAREN:

Well, I guess what's happened first up is the low hanging fruit has been dealt with and there have been a lot of progress with many of the recommendations. We have things like the Parliamentary Workplace Support service, where people in trouble, at any level can go to them and ask for assistance or advice. This is something that was set up pretty quickly. That is something that is working. And most people who go to the Parliamentary Workplace Support Service report that the advice to get there, the people that work there are good and they are very helpful.

There are changes around the building just from small things like better medical, help when needed. There's like vending machines around the building because people realise that there is a tendency to get stuck in the building because you work some really long hours. So there's a vending machine or two around the building where you can get headache tablets or hygiene products or things like that, stockings even. It's amazing.

But there are two big recommendations that are being held up at the moment.

And the interesting thing about that is that they have the two pieces of reform that directly impact on MP and senator behaviour. That's to do with the amount of alcohol that flows through the building. And to do with the enforcement of a code of conduct for serious complaints. And that's the independent Parliamentary Standards Commission. And this is a body that is supposed to have teeth. It's supposed to be in place very soon, but it's been held up like the alcohol policy, because there is a lot of internal debate between the parties about how to go forward and what form it should take.

But there is a parliamentary leaders task force. There's representation from the major parties and some of the independents on that particular body. They're working through this on a nonpartisan way. They want to get the reform through. And I have spoken to the finance minister, Katy Gallagher, and she's confident that there will be legislation that will be put to Parliament fairly soon and that there will be a new commission set up by October so we can start having this sense of consequence in the building.

ASHLYNNE:

So, Karen, you've been speaking to some of the female parliamentarians that are on this taskforce. What are they saying about why there are delays?

KAREN:

I understand that there is immense goodwill on the parliamentary leadership task force. There are people such as Sussan Ley from the opposition, and there is Katy Gallagher and Don Farrell. There's also, Zali Steggall, there's Larissa Water from the Greens. There is good goodwill, but there is this difficulty of getting it through the party room.

So the major parties, there are wide big party rooms and very varying interests, they may be people that have done this sort of behaviour and on the quiet… This is something that is essentially about politicians policing their own behaviour and it’s proving very difficult to get through.

So what could happen if there is a serious breach of the code of conduct? This is the stuff of serious cases like assault or serious cases of bullying and harassment. There would be a possibility for parliamentarians to be suspended. They could be dismissed from a committee. They could have their salary or their allowances docked. And there is a real controversy over how much money should be docked from a parliamentarian's salary, and it could be between 2 and 5% of their base salary. That is some of the controversy.

but it does come down to the cool thing that a parliamentarian, an MP or a senator, cannot be sacked from their job. And that's really interesting because I guess if this situation, a serious complaint has happened in any other workplace, they could get sacked. In this particular circumstance, it's down to the electorate to decide whether a parliamentarian should lose their job for doing something awful to another human being.

ASHLYNNE:

Karen, it's been six years since I worked at Parliament House and back then, it’s exactly what you described it. It was really blokey, boozy, there were functions every night with heaps of free drinks and that was really where the real work happens. So as a staffer, as a journo you really had to be there after hours to get ahead and do your job. You’ve been in the building so much longer than I ever was. Is there a world of work now that happen outside of that? Is it significantly different?

KAREN:

Some things, exactly the same. So the boozy dinners still happen. There are still, at those sort of events that happen out of hours. We've had this situation where Barnaby Joyce had a couple too many, and he got himself into all sorts of trouble.

Audio excerpt – Speaker 1:

“Fronting up after falling down.

Audio excerpt – Barnaby Joyce:

“Good morning.”

Audio excerpt – Speaker 2:

“How are you?”

Audio excerpt – Barnaby Joyce:

“I made a big mistake. There's no excuse for it. There's a reason.”

Audio excerpt – Speaker 1:

“His reason? Drinking whilst taking a prescription drug.”

Audio excerpt – Barnaby Joyce:

“They say certain things may happen to you.”

KAREN:

There are events that still happen inside the building and the alcohol is still served, but we are still working through whether there will be tougher standards about that, but they're not going to get rid of. I got no impression from my discussion with Katy Gallaher that they're going to stop alcohol in the building. That is not going to totally happen.

But things have to change, is it still a boys club? Well, yes. There are still things that only male parliamentarians will do though. They’ll catch up with their own ones. I would say the independent female MPs coming in the last term of Parliament have made a big change to the way discourse has happened in this place.

I think back to Kylea Tink, where she stood up and complained in Parliament about how she felt unsafe when there was a change in procedure and she was yelled at, and what she said was in an aggressive manner and to draw attention to that. Would people have drawn attention to that in the past? It got attention and made people think about how they should be behaving in the chamber. Is it still happening in the chamber? Well, yes, there are concerns.

There is a rough and tumble in the Parliament. It's a real blurry line between whether that thing constitutes bullying, but it is still a rough place. It's still a very difficult place in many senses. I would say that what I hear when I talk to people in Parliament House is that there will only be true change when there are consequences laid down for serious events, and that's something that has to be worked through once there is an independent Parliamentary Standards Commission. And let's wait and see on that one.

ASHLYNNE:

Karen, thanks so much for your time.

KAREN:

Thank you.

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ASHLYNNE:

Also in the news today…

Three Tourism Australia staff who went on private holidays using $137 thousand dollars of taxpayer funds, are being investigated by the National Anti-Corruption Commission.

The three staff have been sacked from the tourism body but Tourism Australia officials have not yet revealed the destination or nature of the trips, citing the need for investigations to be completed.

And

Elon Musk’s platform x.com will be able to continue hosting graphic video of the stabbing of a bishop in Sydney, after Australia’s eSafety Commissioner Julie Inman Grant announced she was dropping court action against it.

The commissioner said the decision isn’t a concession to Musk’s allegation she’d overreached in the case and attempted to act as a ‘global censor’.

Yesterday, Inman Grant said that was a ‘furphy’ and that she believes the only way to pursue tech giants over harmful content was to target their global servers that host it.

I am Ashlynne McGhee. That’s all from us today at 7am. Thanks for your company. We will see you again tomorrow.

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